EP33 - Tradition, History, Innovation: Owning Your University's Unique Stories
w/ Andy Fuller
Executive Director of Brand Content, University of Notre Dame
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SHOW NOTES
My guest today is Andy Fuller, Executive Director of Brand Content at the University of Notre Dame. In this episode we go deep on the power of narrative ownership and storytelling to strengthen your university's brand.
Key takeaways:
What narrative ownership is and why it's so important for universities to own the stories about their history, buildings, traditions, etc. rather than letting others shape the narrative. Andy shares great examples from Notre Dame's history.
The process Notre Dame uses for identifying stories to tell - including social listening and checking mentions.
Tips for finding the compelling stories in research breakthroughs and conveying why your university matters to people through relatable examples.
Advice for rolling out content across platforms, starting with internal audiences first.
Behind the scenes look at how Notre Dame's creative team works together to bring stories to life across mediums.
The power of evoking emotion through stories vs. just stating facts and stats.
Andy's key piece of advice: focus on telling your authentic stories first, irrespective of what other universities are doing. Raise your flag high!
Connect with Andy:
Instagram: @andy_fuller
Threads: @andy_fuller
Connect with me:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnazoni/
Learn more about UNVEILD: https://unveild.tv
Video Subscription Pricing: http://pricing.unveild.tv
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Transcript (done with AI so only about 90% accurate):
John Azoni: Okay, cool. All right. Uh, well, Andy, welcome to the show.
John Azoni: Thanks for so much for being here, John.
Andy Fuller: Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
John Azoni: Awesome. So, um, I want to start off the show by asking you, um, what's, what's something that people would be surprised to know about you? Yeah.
Andy Fuller: Um, so, okay, I'm going to date myself, uh, a little bit here, but if you recall, um, back when MTV, uh, was mostly about music, so, um, early 2000s or so, they had, Uh, a show called TRL, Total Request Live, right?
Andy Fuller: Hosted by Carson Daly. I remember it. Yeah, good. Um, well, I made, uh, two [00:01:00] appearances on TRL. One of them was a speaking role. I gave a shout out as it was called. Um, and in another episode, I actually got a t shirt for being the wildest member of the studio audience. Uh, and I still have the t shirt and I did not wear it today, unfortunately.
Andy Fuller: But, um, yeah, most people who meet me, um, that is a. A surprising thing to learn. So m t v two
John Azoni: appearances. And, and did you get, uh, did you get the t-shirt from Carson Daley?
Andy Fuller: No. ? No. It was, uh, one of the, like the studio, um, uh, crew was like, this guy right here. And I'm like, oh, me? And, uh, and I, and my, I was with my college roommates at the time and, and they were like, wow, this is crazy.
Andy Fuller: And, um, yeah, it was a, it was a fun time in. In New York capped off by um, uh appearance on TRL. I went into television after that Um, so maybe that was the actually the birth of my my television career. I don't know but uh, yeah It worked. It [00:02:00] worked out awesome
John Azoni: That's cool. Yeah, my I used to come home from school every day.
John Azoni: My sister and I would Would plop on the couch and, and watch TRL and, uh, gosh, like, I can't remember, like Limp Bizkit was out. Oh yeah. Like
Andy Fuller: there was, uh, I think my shout out was during a blink one 82 song or something like that. Um, yeah, so it was one of my friends did record the episode and I think he's just holding it for like blackmail material for when I run for office or something like that.
Andy Fuller: So,
John Azoni: yeah. Oh, great. I love that story. Thanks for sharing that. All right. So, so you are, um. Uh, the brand leader at Notre Dame, tell, tell us what's your official title. Tell us about your
Andy Fuller: role a little bit. Yeah, sure. So I'm executive director of brand content at, at Notre Dame. And actually the brand content unit is a fairly new one.
Andy Fuller: Uh, just kind of came together under its, um, current, uh, iteration on, on July 1st. And, and, and basically, John, what we do is we help people, um, care about Notre Dame. And help them, and [00:03:00] help explain why we matter. Because ultimately that's what your brand is. It's why people should care about you and, and, and why you matter.
Andy Fuller: And we, we try to, um, orient our storytelling and our content, uh, around like those two, two big goals. Make people care, tell them why we matter.
John Azoni: That's awesome. I like that. So tell me about your team. What's your team layout look like? Yep.
Andy Fuller: So I have, um, so social media. So if you think about like at Notre Dame on Twitter, at Notre Dame on Instagram, like the main social media for the university is on our team.
Andy Fuller: Uh, we have a couple people doing that. We have some videographers, some photographers, a writer. We also source writing from around campus, um, and then a, a web designer and, and a content specialist whose job is not only to kind of produce and package content, but also. Um, look at analytics, tell us how we're performing, how we can optimize, um, things like that.
Andy Fuller: So I got a multidisciplinary team of, um, 11 and, but then we kind of attach ourselves to other units, either on campus [00:04:00] or, or within our division. And then, of course, we, um, are much bigger when. When we do that. So we do a lot of stories, um, a lot of long form storytelling, uh, on indie.edu. Uh, if you think about the, the university's central digital presence, I mean, that's kind of where we spend a lot of our time.
Andy Fuller: Um, so a lot of photo videos, social, uh, things like that. What, what you would normally think of in terms of brand content and storytelling. Yeah.
John Azoni: What, what platforms are you guys most active on right now? Yeah.
Andy Fuller: I mean, other than like the, the main. Um, you know, web properties. Uh, Instagram is one that we're just, we just can't spend enough time there.
Andy Fuller: Um, really we're seeing a ton of engagement and it's interesting as we're recording this, it feels like Instagram is, um, swinging the pendulum back to, to reels, um, you know, kind of was there a while then they were like, well, no, we're, we're really about still images again. And now it's coming back to real.
Andy Fuller: So that video, um, yeah. You know, [00:05:00] component of our, of our portfolio just continues to be really super important. So Instagram is, is a big one. Um, you know, we're looking at tick tock. Obviously that's, uh, we're not there yet. Uh, but we're very interested in studying that and wondering what, um, the university presence there looks like.
Andy Fuller: Um, we're on threads, you know, the first night, Uh, that, that it launched, um, our, our social media manager hopped on, grabbed the Notre Dame handle and we've been doing, um, a fair amount there as, as well. So, you know, those are some of the main social platforms. We, we of course have a, a, a presence on Facebook, um, as well, but, um, you know, the one thing that we're really looking to do more in is, is YouTube.
Andy Fuller: Uh, it sounds, it's kind of forgotten, um, sometimes, and it sounds kind of an obvious thing, but, um, you know, YouTube, I think I read is now the. Biggest podcasting platform, um, out there. And so, you know, we need to pay really close attention to, to YouTube and how to make, how to maximize [00:06:00] that for us as well.
Andy Fuller: So we're as busy as we want to be, um, kind of keeping those plates spinning on, on the, on the various platforms.
John Azoni: That's cool. Yeah. YouTube, I, you know, I, for this podcast, I've been very, uh, involved with YouTube, but, but kind of passively, like not like really trying to, yeah. You know, game, the system or SEO, whatever, but, but just kind of taking snippets from the podcast as well as full episodes and putting them on YouTube and YouTube shorts.
John Azoni: Um, and it's been, you know, I've got some, some clips of, I mean, taken off in relative to anything else that has not taken off, you know, for me, so taken off for, for, to me as like a thousand, 1500 views, you know.
Andy Fuller: And that's great. That's great. You know, I, I, um, our podcast, yeah, it's a Notre Dame stories is our podcast and we've been doing it for about five years.
Andy Fuller: And, you know, I, I always try to temper my expectations of streams and downloads and stuff like that because, you know, at the end of the day, if you have someone listening to you for 25 [00:07:00] minutes, a half hour, whatever, you Yep. So it is, that's a long time to spend with a brand. And you know, I, I feel like that means something it's, it can mean more than just a, a like, you know, or, or something like that.
Andy Fuller: So the fact that they're interacting with your content for that amount of time, I think is significant. So I think that's great.
John Azoni: Yeah. Even like, and I try to keep that in mind too, with, with all social media, like people are. Listening, you know, to you and, and, um, you know, I remember when I started really posting content regularly on LinkedIn, I was always just like, man, like nobody likes any of this stuff.
John Azoni: No one comments and stuff like that. But then I would like see people I know, like from the business world, like in person, they'd be like, Oh, I love what you're doing on LinkedIn. I'm like seeing your stuff. So like those impressions do matter, you know? Right. And people are in, and people, I think, I think you just have to earn it a little more on LinkedIn, like with, with engagement, like that.
John Azoni: It takes a lot more than like the Facebook, you know, where it's like your family and friends and stuff like that. But, but people, you know, yeah, I mean, I know it's the same thing with [00:08:00] like, with like this podcast too, like the, um, it's growing and growing. And, but if you look at the backend numbers versus like my experience in meeting new people who have already heard about, like, that's how I met, that's how I met you was I reached out to you and you're like, Oh, I already listened.
Andy Fuller: Yeah, exactly. And you're like, Oh, well, cool. Um, you know, so a few of those 1500 or whatever, you know, you never know. They're like people in the industry and you know, the folks you want to reach. So yeah,
John Azoni: for sure. Um, anyways, yeah. So, and, uh, and for YouTube, I, I just heard too for storytelling and, uh, I mean, we make one incorporate this later, but the shorts is just, uh, the shorts is, has released a way that you can now connect the short videos to a long form.
John Azoni: Video. So I just think that's a cool opportunity for universities that are doing a lot of storytelling to take, um, their long form thing, cut it up into a bunch of small little teasers and then point to the long thing. Um, I'm excited about that. I think that's going to be
Andy Fuller: cool. [00:09:00] No, I, I, you're exactly right.
Andy Fuller: And we've kind of been doing that in a less efficient way, um, already. So for, for YouTube to sort of, um, reduce some of that friction from going, uh, from platform to platform. platform is, is really going to be helpful. Um, you know, you just gotta find, uh, the hands and the time to, um, to work on it. You know, that's the challenge for everyone.
Andy Fuller: I think,
John Azoni: yeah, it's just, it's a, I mean, I talked to, um, Darren Rubenick from, um, he's at a university of central Missouri. Uh, on the podcast and we were just talking about how just like social media overwhelm and threads coming out and just, it's like reaching this tipping point where it's like, Oh my gosh, it's just, yeah, it's, uh, we feel like we need like three or four different social media managers to just like, you know, just pay attention to these different algorithms.
John Azoni: Yeah, it can be exhausting.
Andy Fuller: You know, at, at Notre Dame, um, we were an army of, of one, we had one person dedicated to central social media until. Um, [00:10:00] July 1st, and then we hired our second, um, so, you know, it, it, she, Liz is, is her name, our social media manager. She was, um, you know, burning it up both ends quite a bit.
Andy Fuller: And, and, and as you said, the proliferation and, you know, the expansion of these platforms, you know, doesn't stop. And so you, you, uh, if someone's making a hire, I would really look strongly at, at that area as the area of most growth and most engagement, uh, for, for your university.
John Azoni: For sure. Yeah, I agree. Um, okay.
John Azoni: So we got you on here to talk about this idea of, uh, narrative ownership. Um, and, and so Notre Dame has, uh, a great history of, of storytelling and there's a lot of, Historical stories that come along with the university's brand. Um, and so you were telling me earlier about this idea of narrative ownership.
John Azoni: What, what is that? What is that? What do you guys, how do you guys like talk about that on your
Andy Fuller: team? Yeah, sure. So, so narrative ownership is, it sounds very simple and. Um, and, [00:11:00] and it is technically it's, it's this idea that for every university, I mean, Notre Dame, of course, but I think honestly, every, um, university, big or small has, um, these pieces of information or these bits of narrative out there about them, um, that most often live in the public consciousness and in part, um, you know, and, and.
Andy Fuller: It, um, it's up to us, I think, as kind of stewards of the brand to give a full accounting for whatever it is that, that people are telling, you know, in part out there on, um, on the web. I'll give you an example of how this kind of started for, for us. There's this, uh, Twitter account, X account, sorry, uh, called, um, uh, Uber Facts.
Andy Fuller: I don't even know if they're still around, but this was a while ago. Uh, we were looking through our mentions and Uber Facts, um, said, did you know that in the 1920s? Um, a group of Notre Dame students, um, broke up a KKK [00:12:00] rally, Ku Klux Klan rally, uh, and, and drove them out of South Bend. Um, and I saw that and I said, well, that's our story to tell.
Andy Fuller: Um, you know, great that, uh, you, you want to talk about the university, but you know, that, that's, that's a piece of our history. So why don't we... Provide the accounting of, of that, um, of that story. And, um, so our writer looked into it and, and developed this, this sort of longish form, um, pieces on nd. edu. Now it's called clash over Catholicism because as.
Andy Fuller: People kind of rightly remember the KKK for their racism, but they were also very anti Catholic, and that was kind of the friction that our students at the time saw coming to South Bend. Klan was very big in Indiana in the 1920s. And, uh, they were having a rally in South Bend and long story short, our students, it was an all boys school at the time, Notre Dame was, and as, as boys tend to do, they get themselves, um, maybe a little worked up.
Andy Fuller: And so they went downtown and, [00:13:00] um, long story short, a, a fight breaks out. There's fisticuffs. And, um, our students kind of roughed up the Klan members, even ripped. Like robes and hats off of some of them to keep as as as trophies So it was this kind of kind of weird piece of notre dame history um, and I don't want to overstate the importance of that incident, but Um, it was kind of a high water mark for the kkk in indiana after that Their power really started to subside, um, in the state.
Andy Fuller: And so, and again, that's not necessarily because of our students or whatever, but it is kind of an interesting thing to document, um, in, in, in Notre Dame's history. And so that continues to be one of our, um. Um, and it's this piece of Notre Dame lore that again, people are talking about out there, but maybe they don't know the whole story, um, or maybe more obviously, they're getting the information from someplace other than your domain, you know, um, if it's not coming from an nd.
Andy Fuller: edu website, you know, I kind of feel a responsibility to [00:14:00] correct that, um, as, as, you know, the leader of brand content, um, so that's kind of where the idea started. We also have a story. Thank you. Um, what's in a name and it tells the, the lineage, the history of why we're called the fighting Irish. Um, you know, and that one again, month to month becomes one of our most viewed stories because, um, sports mascots, uh, and nicknames every so often there's a conversation about what's appropriate and what's not.
Andy Fuller: And, and, and frequently. Notre Dame is mentioned in that. Well, why, what's with the fighting Irish? And, and I don't want to give any, any spoilers, but, um, basically, um, the Irish name, uh, at the time we started playing sports was actually a derogatory term, um, for, for Catholics or immigrants. And, um, a lot of our students were, um, Irish immigrants or, um, or obviously Catholic.
Andy Fuller: And, and, and the story is about how we kind of turned that into. into a positive and we [00:15:00] kind of took it on as a sort of badge of honor, um, if you will. And, um, what, what those two stories do for us is, um, they help build a little more brand affinity. Um. Um, you know, it's not, um, a heavy research piece. It's not, hey, we have a breakthrough on this, this thing that really matters to people.
Andy Fuller: It's, it's, you're getting to know the university a little better. Um, most people, I think when they think of Notre Dame, uh, the words, you know, um, blue collar or, or hard nose don't necessarily, you know, aren't necessarily top of mind, but that's in our history. That's definitely our roots, and these two stories help, help, um, shape that a little bit.
Andy Fuller: Our main thing is if you get to know us a little better, um, our bet is that you will get to like us a little better. So you'll have this brand affinity. And that will increase our reach so that when we, um, do need to talk about, um, the [00:16:00] breakthroughs that we're close to on peanut allergies, um, when you need to know that Notre Dame matters because...
Andy Fuller: Um, we're making, um, transplant organs viable for longer so that people who need those procedures have a better shot at making it. Um, you know, you're going to hear that because you've already developed this, this affinity and you've already kind of engaged with a piece of content that is, you know, not really about our research or our global presence or something like that, but just makes you like us a little more.
Andy Fuller: Um, so that's kind of the, the bigger strategy of, of, Of narrative ownership and we got another major one going on, uh, right now related to the dome as well But that's um, that's kind of the genesis and where we've seen narrative ownership take place for us.
John Azoni: That's awesome I love that and in knowing that you were on trl.
John Azoni: I already like you more. So, you know, exactly we're seeing We're seeing this in action right now. Um, so the peanut allergies, I want, I want to hear more about that. Cause here's the thing. Like I think when people think, [00:17:00] uh, when, when a marketing team is thinking, okay, we got to tell our story or we got to tell stories.
John Azoni: I think the default is to go to what's the broader narrative. of the college, um, or like, what are the values and things like that? Or maybe it's like, well, it's to tell some stories about our students or alumni and stuff like that. But I think something that's often really overlooked, which I find really interesting on YouTube, like I watch a lot of these videos is, um, like what are the, what's being researched and like, how are, you know, like, how can I get.
John Azoni: How can I learn about a subject through your university? And then what are you doing with that information right now? Like I, um, I can't totally bad example. Cause I can't remember. Oh no, I didn't. It was, it was university of Chicago. Uh, they did, they did, um, uh, the history of sleep, you know, and like sleep studies and stuff like that.
John Azoni: And I was like, oh, this is fascinating. And it really just, um. It's just, it's just something cool that's happening that you can [00:18:00] own, like, and it's a way of saying, like, not just saying, like, we have world class professors, but it's like... Here's an example of like cool stuff that we're doing. So anyway, but I'm interested in the peanut allergies.
John Azoni: That's always fascinated me. I I've never seen so many allergies. I, when I turned 30, I developed an egg allergy. It was just like, it was just like a gift from the, you know, it was just like, Oh, you're 30 now. Here you go. Your allergies. Here's some back pain.
Andy Fuller: Happy birthday. Exactly. Yeah. I sneezed and now I'm out for a week and yeah, that's.
Andy Fuller: Yeah, it is, it is, um, a peanut allergy. So we profiled this, uh, I think most fully in, in a series we call what would you fight for? So we're the fighting Irish. We have this series that airs, um, uh, at halftime of home football broadcast called what would you fight for? Um, and. Uh, the peanut allergy was with a professor, um, I believe in engineering who developed a way, um, to, to sort of inhibit, um, the, uh, [00:19:00] the process by which, uh, the, the body reacts to, to a peanut and recognizes it as an, as an allergen, um, and something to, to get rid of, because that's ultimately what happens with, with people with a, a severe peanut allergy.
Andy Fuller: And so, um, You know, that that and then the, um, uh, the heart transplant thing, you know, that is back to your brand, why you matter to people. And I think that's what it comes back to for, for universities. Um, it's one thing to, to, to tout your stats. It's one thing to say, you know, this. Percentage of our student body was in the top 5% of their class or whatever it is.
Andy Fuller: That's all great Those can be kind of secondary reasons to believe but why you matter why people should care about you Ultimately, you got to strike them kind of in the core in the heart And the way you do that is through relatability. So I think You know, the story about the KKK, the story about the fighting Irish, that has elements of relatability to it.
Andy Fuller: And now you're talking kind of [00:20:00] institutionally, Oh, Notre Dame is a place that actually is a little more relatable than I thought. And, by the way, I care about them because I have a nephew who has a peanut allergy. Or, you know, my uncle needs a heart transplant. And, uh, Notre Dame matters because they're helping.
Andy Fuller: Um, someone with, with my greatest need in life. Uh, and that's why you matter. That's, that's what your brand is to people. That's why they should care about you. It's not so much about, um, your academic prowess. Uh, it's more about what are you doing with that knowledge? Um, how are you, um, helping people with the knowledge that you're creating and what, what you're studying?
Andy Fuller: And that comes back to our, our mission. Um. And it's not just a Notre Dame thing that many universities can say this clearly, um, but for us, you know, it's that knowledge for good force for good in the world, which is very much in our, in our founding. And that's why people should care. Um, ultimately, it's great that you have cool buildings.
Andy Fuller: Uh, it's great that, [00:21:00] um. You know, your your football team is ranked. I think we're 18th. Um, as we're recording this, um, that's all cool. But if you can't meet people where they are, if you can't show how your university is solving someone's critical need that they feel very personally, then ultimately you're not going to get a ton of traction and you're not going to have the brand reputation that
John Azoni: That's awesome.
John Azoni: And I, and I, in the, the culturally relevant conversations for a university to jump into is, is, is how I kind of a more goofy side there's, there's, um, I don't know if listeners know who Mark Rober is, but he's, he's an engineer. Um, and if anyone's ever seen the glitter, like Andy, have you seen that glitter bomb?
John Azoni: video where he like, okay, so that's Mark Rober. So he, so he was getting packages stolen, um, from office half his porch. And so he is this brilliant, uh, engineer and came up with this, um, this gag. So when someone stole it, they would open it, it would spray like fart spray and then spray [00:22:00] glitter everywhere.
John Azoni: And it just keeps getting like, I think they're on like the third iteration of this and it just keeps getting more and more ridiculous. But, um, I just think that's such a, that's such a, I mean, not like that's a really high academic thing to do, but like, I always remember his, his videos because they're, they're experiments on like little real life things.
John Azoni: Like every, I, my, my kids love to go to Chuck E. Cheese. I actually love it too.
Andy Fuller: Confessions. Yes. We love it. Yeah.
John Azoni: Um, yeah, like they always want to go like swimming, like to the pool or something like, right. Can we just go at Chuck E. Cheese? Like the, that's just something in it for everybody there. You know?
John Azoni: Um, but like he did a video where he, uh, Mark Rober did a video. Like there's like that. There's a, the, the machine where like that light kind of goes around and around and you got to stop it like right on the arrow or whatever. And then you get that and then you get the jackpot. And he like created like a mesh, um, a mechanism where it would automate.
John Azoni: Like it [00:23:00] like timed it perfectly and so he and he explained engineering through Through that i'm like, this is so interesting because it's like this really if you were to just explain engineering Right, it's too it's too it's too academic. But if you were to take something that's just kind of silly and interesting I mean like I always remember remember that whenever I go to Yeah,
Andy Fuller: right, you know, and that's the you know There's a lot of ways to look at storytelling, just kind of kind of broadly, right?
Andy Fuller: But I think the most helpful one is to try to put your audience as the main character in the story, which means like, how are they viewing this? How can they see this in their life? Um, if you will. And, um, you mentioned sleep. We've done a piece on sleep to with a researcher here who talks about what the mind does when, when you're asleep at night.
Andy Fuller: And that's stuff that, you know, again, people are, Really interested in because that's right where they live, right? I did not get enough sleep last night. Um, might have been coming back from L. A. For example, uh, hypothetically, [00:24:00] uh, but, um, you know, and, and, but everyone can relate to a lack of sleep because we're chronically, um, You know, uh, under in that category as, as Americans, I think.
Andy Fuller: So, you know, even if it's not, you know, peanut allergies or heart transplant, something that's, you know, really huge and heavy, but just how am I, how are you going to help people in their everyday life? Um, you know, that, that matters so much to people. If someone can see your brand fitting into their life and what they care about and just kind of the, the day to day moments, man, not just in higher ed, but, but generally, um, that's where a brand really gets traction and starts to, to occupy real estate in someone's heart and mind.
John Azoni: Yeah. And, um, I think too, just like, you know, it's, it's. It's easy to think when you're going to, okay, we need to do more storytelling. So we're going to talk about us. Right. We're going to, we're going to talk about what's our story, what stuff that's, that people will be cool to know about us. And you should have those things.
John Azoni: There should be, um, you know, you should have those kinds of [00:25:00] narratives, but, but also it's like, It's the power of inviting people into a story and, and you can think about storytelling, like, where are we making an impact and let's tell the story of the impact or the story of the mission. Um, and just through learning that, like we, we know that this is brought to you by this brand.
John Azoni: Um, and yeah, I think there's a, I sent out my newsletter. Uh, a week or two ago, um, it was a law school and I'm blanking on the law school, but they had, you know, they were, they were, um, it was a whole video just about this impact that they're making. They're like inviting people into this impact that you can have as a, as a lawyer and, and, um, be part of this mission.
John Azoni: And I just thought that was like, that's, that's cool. That's a way to like show, to like show your value rather than just. Tell it,
Andy Fuller: you know, yeah, that that's that's absolutely right. I think um, what you said is right. I [00:26:00] mean people tend to to be um focused on themselves and and but the problem is they always go to the stats, you know that they want to Want to to highlight and they don't go to Well, why do we matter?
Andy Fuller: Uh, and in the case of those those lawyers, I mean, hopefully they are using their knowledge to to help someone who needs help That's why ultimately universities matter, um, right in, in this world. So yeah, it's, um, there's more to it than just kind of, uh, some flashy way to say what your ranking is,
John Azoni: right?
John Azoni: Yeah. There's always, I think it's, I think storytelling is almost more powerful in the, in the individual specific examples. And I think, um, I see. Just, I think more people need to understand the power of getting specific, you know, cause that's where like, that's where all the emotion lies. Like when you, when, when you're, when you're telling just kind of a story of like this broad thing, it's fine, but it's like.
John Azoni: When you, when you talk about how [00:27:00] that made you feel or an example of something that happened, that illustrates what you're trying to say, it's like, it's just so much more, uh, engaging. Um,
Andy Fuller: Boy, you are, you're a hundred percent right. I, I, um, I gave a talk a little while ago on, um, on storytelling. And one of the things I say is that, you know, we inform with facts, but we influence with emotion.
Andy Fuller: And so if you're just looking to tell someone. Uh, something about your university, then the facts are all you need. But if you want them to feel something about your, your university, then you need to influence them. And the way to do that is to evoke an emotional reaction. And that only comes through storytelling and good storytelling at the, at that fine.
Andy Fuller: If you want to have, um, you know, your, your rankings and your news releases and stuff like that. And we do a ton of that too. Um, but to influence, you're going to need emotion. And the way to do that is through, is through storytelling all day long.
John Azoni: Absolutely. So where are you guys going back to this idea of narrative ownership?
John Azoni: Where are [00:28:00] you guys finding? The stories to tell, um, like you, cause in our pre interview, you mentioned like you guys do a lot of listening and a social listening and things. Let's talk about the social listening part of that.
Andy Fuller: Yeah. I mean, I mentioned the, the Uberfax thing, uh, which was, which was a big one for us, um, you know, uh, and, and I think the other one with the, um, uh, the, why we call the fighting Irish.
Andy Fuller: I think there was an anchor on ESPN who wondered aloud whether, um, You know, fighting Irish was was appropriate. And so, you know, it's very, it sounds very obvious, john. But honestly, a lot of it's just going through your your mentions, whatever platform you have to kind of capture that just kind of going through and saying, you know, is there something here that, um, not that we want to respond to every story opportunity, right?
Andy Fuller: Um, but is there something here that that helps the brand a little bit? Um, and it's clearly something that people we think would, um, would respond to. [00:29:00] And, um. And where those two kind of things intersect, you know, um, kind of our, our gut feel for, for what makes a good story and, uh, would it elevate the brand and are people talking about it, uh, without us, um, then, then we, then we think we might have, um, a story, uh, the latest, the other time, the other way to kind of get at these is, is what's happening in the life of your, uh, And, you know, we're as we're recording this, we're undergoing, um, A pretty major storytelling rollout around our most recognizable campus landmark, which is the main building, better known to everyone else as the Golden Dome and for the first time in 18 years, the the dome and the Statue of Mary at the top are being regilded and just stop there and think about this.
Andy Fuller: This didn't happen since And, and you think about what storytelling and content looked like in 2005, a very different world. Um, [00:30:00] now. So we thought this was an opportunity, um, to really capitalize on something that has happened about a dozen times in the life of the university, but, uh, never with this amount of, uh, platforms and tools to kind of tell the story.
Andy Fuller: So we've got out the drones, we've been up there with the scaffolding, uh, to really kind of document this process because our bet is if you know the story of the main building, if you know, the dome, um, Um, you'll know Notre Dame. Uh, it is a microcosm for the university's, um, history and, and reputation and just kind of what it...
Andy Fuller: What its mission is. And so we took this opportunity to kind of build some of that out. So why, why is there a dome here? Why did they put a statue of Mary at the top? And what was the domes history? And if you understand that, um, I think you'll, you'll understand Notre Dame a little more. And again, I think you'll have a little more affinity.
Andy Fuller: I mean, we draw you in with the pretty pictures because it is really stunning work that's being done and there's access that, uh, you don't get [00:31:00] from the ground. I mean, our photographers are up there, you know, high in the air, kind of, kind of doing this work and, um, and we're using that opportunity to tell you more about, um, university.
Andy Fuller: So really strong visuals to as kind of a hook. But then, hey, read a little more and you understand that this was a place for, um, You know, immigrants and kind of blue collar folks to find a home, uh, at the start. And a lot of students actually paid their way by working on campus buildings. Um, at the start, you wouldn't think about that about Notre Dame.
Andy Fuller: Now, I don't think we have those, those scholarships anymore. But, um, you know, and, and so, and sure enough, uh, in our first iteration of, of this sort of storytelling package, um, our photo essay platform saw a 900% increase. Um, relative to your average in terms of users, um, we have what we would call a statistical anomaly, uh, in terms of page views to, to nd.
Andy Fuller: edu. So it's clearly something that, that our audience was, was [00:32:00] interested in, wanted to know, um, more about. And so, um, just kind of, there's kind of an innate knowledge. I've been at the university for 11 years, and you kind of. Um, a little bit like this is what I think would, would work, uh, for our audience.
Andy Fuller: Um, and then capitalizing when, you know, you may not have another opportunity. And, you know, if I'm here in 18 years, great. And I'm happy to do this, uh, regale thing again, but you know, I may not be. And so, um, I wanted to kind of, we wanted to, to really kind of, uh, capitalize on, on, on the opportunity to, to kind of own that narrative around, you know, certainly our most recognizable.
Andy Fuller: Campus landmark and a building that I think most people would recognize if they saw a picture of it, too
John Azoni: Yeah, and how do you roll these stories out? Like what's the what's the campaign look like once you once you have one of these?
Andy Fuller: so the um, the re the first iteration of the regal was kind of interesting our internal comms director, um, general liberto she actually um [00:33:00] Said, you know, why don't we roll this out to the internal audience first?
Andy Fuller: They're the ones who are seeing, seeing this every day and they're kind of wondering what's going on. And, and, and it was really the right strategy, um, all day long. So we rolled it out internally first. Um, and then not long after that, you know, I think even same day we, uh, we rolled it out on, on social first.
Andy Fuller: Um, and, and kind of like what you were saying with, um, with YouTube shorts, you know, these, these short snippets that lead you back to the long form. I mean, that was, that was kind of how. We've done business for a long time, and, um, that's, that's, that's what we did here. Um, our social engagement was, um, I think 12%, uh, our engagement rate, which is, you know, double what we normally get.
Andy Fuller: We do pretty well there anyway, but that's double what we, what we normally get. And, um, So it was, it was kind of that internal audience first and then and then the public, um, outlay, uh, this next iteration, which should hit this week as we're recording this, um, will probably be external facing 1st, um, and then maybe internal following following that normally [00:34:00] are storytelling.
Andy Fuller: Is, uh, posted on nd. edu first, uh, and then we kind of come in, um, with, uh, with our social to, to, to point there. So it's a very common strategy. We're not doing anything, um, you know, overly difficult or revolutionary there, um, but it's working. I mean, uh, frequently and consistently are our main referral sources are social media channels.
Andy Fuller: Um, all day long. And so, uh, you know, we're, we're, that's working for us and we're kind of sticking with it.
John Azoni: That's cool. And you mentioned you had, uh, you have a writer, what, tell me about the play between like, does somebody write a script? Um, and then your videographers go out or is it like interview based?
John Azoni: Like, tell me about the play between the different roles in the storytelling. Yeah,
Andy Fuller: it's, it's, um, it's really interesting because our writer, our designated writer is mostly just working on long form content. Uh, he's a, um, He's a journalist by [00:35:00] trade. A lot of us in the higher ed communications community are, um, so, you know, he kind of uses those skills to find interesting stories and, and bring in the human element and, and stuff like that.
Andy Fuller: So he's a trained journalist and he does that very well when it comes to scripting videos. Honestly, for the most part, we leave that to our videographers. Um, we say here are the three things, you know, we're a lot, a lot of times me or someone else from our team is there for the interview to kind of have another set of ears.
Andy Fuller: Um, and then we kind of say, here's the three things that I heard that should make it into the piece. Um, other than that, just make it fit. We give them a lot of leeway and creative, creative control over, um, over their work that way. And, and that's worked very well. Um, you know, we've not seen a need to have, um, a script sort of, um, Sort of fleshed out in any real and complete sense most of the time now if we're doing um Something that's not like a [00:36:00] narrative package and is more Like our 32nd institutional spot, which we are are working on right now Which will air during all of our sports broadcasts Then we do have I wrote the script for that one this year And then we do kind of have like a storyboard, uh type technique, but in the day to day we don't normally um Get into that.
Andy Fuller: We just kind of let the videographers, uh, do their thing.
John Azoni: Are you guys handling commercials like that? Um, in, in turn, sorry, my wife's calling me, recording a podcast. Love it. Hang on one second. Let me just make sure it's not an emergency. Absolutely. No problem. All right. One second.[00:37:00]
Andy Fuller: All good. Oh, I lost you. I think I'm you're muted.
Andy Fuller: There you go. Are we good
John Azoni: there? Yep. There we go. All right. Um, editor listening to this. Cut that part out.
John Azoni: Yeah. It's funny. It's, it's, and it's hard to, my office where I record these is like right. Next to the kitchen where we have like, you know, the kids sit and eat breakfast and stuff like that. So usually when I'm like recording a podcast, I'm like, all right, I need an hour. Like, yeah, yes. Go to target or
Andy Fuller: something.
Andy Fuller: Exactly. Uh, put on blue eight and let's roll. Yeah.
John Azoni: Yeah. Um, so where were we? Uh, I was, I was, oh, so I asked you, um, does your, um, does your internal team. Handle like the bigger stuff too, like the commercials.
Andy Fuller: Uh, yeah. So we, we generate, do we do that all in house? Um, we have gone out for like voiceover, um, [00:38:00] before, but, uh, this year's, I think will be a hundred percent in house.
Andy Fuller: We come up with the idea, we, uh, write it, we shoot it, um, sometimes on location. Uh, and that means. You know, various locations where Notre Dame has a presence in the world. Um, so yeah, our internal, uh, team, uh, has, has taken the lead on that. Um, boy, I want to say for less. Maybe eight years or so. Uh, it's, it's been quite a while since we've gone outside for, for that particular piece.
John Azoni: And once I talk to a lot of marketing directors that, um, you know, About, like, an asset library, a B roll library, a picture library, whatever. Um, and that's a big problem that I, I think, uh, you know, we see, is that, Especially if you're gonna go tell stories like historical stories. Um, Tell us about how you guys, uh, have Mimi address that problem or solve it.
John Azoni: Like, do you guys have archives somewhere? Is it organized? Is that kind of just, uh, the wild West and you're trying to figure it out right now? Or,
Andy Fuller: um, it's, it's somewhere in [00:39:00] between. I don't know if it's the wild West, but, uh, it's, it's, um, it's not very settled. I would, I would, I would say, um, we have a great university archives department here who, who is very helpful, you know, like, Hey, we need this.
Andy Fuller: Um, footage of, you know, whatever it was, um, Dwight Eisenhower, um, you know, coming to campus, uh, or whatever, and, and they're usually great with, with kind of locating that and, and, and finding it. Um, we have to get creative other times, um, you know, if we know that we have to show an old time lab. Um, and it, and it needs to be a video thing that we're, we're staging, uh, for dramatic effect.
Andy Fuller: I mean, we're, we're, there's a little bit of an art form. It's not just pure journalism that we're trying to, trying to execute on here. Um, so we'll do a, we'll do what's needed, um, for that. We've, we've at times used if we just have a still image, but it's a really compelling one. We've done the Ken Burns thing.
Andy Fuller: Um. You know, the [00:40:00] pan and stuff like that. I don't do that a ton, but for the most part, what we need we have, we're always, um, and now I think we're kind of turning our attention here again to update our campus B roll. Um, you know, we're building a lot of new facilities on campus, uh, some high end research stuff that, uh, you know, is going to be important, uh, for us to kind of document and, and see, um, because you'll need that look and feel in a story from time to time.
Andy Fuller: And, uh, so that's kind of the main thing that we're, we're still always grabbing the historical stuff. We have some, uh, help, uh, with university archives. Other than that, we're kind of staging. Okay.
John Azoni: Yeah, interesting. Um, awesome. Well, this has been, this has been a great conversation. What, what would be your, um, your charge or your advice to other schools, um, small or big that, uh, you know, maybe have stories like these to tell?
John Azoni: Like, what, what [00:41:00] would you, what would you advise to other people?
Andy Fuller: Yeah, you know, I, um. I think it does go back to, to narrative ownership. And here's the thing, I think in higher ed, we're so interested in differentiation, um, and unfortunately, I think a lot of times where that sort of exercise goes is the comparison game.
Andy Fuller: Um, we're not like, Um, state you because ABC and so we need to, we need to tell that story and I'm, I'm someone who believes differentiation will never come through comparison. Uh, I think you got to know yourself intimately first and then tell those stories that are, here's just us. Don't worry about anyone else.
Andy Fuller: Here's, here's just us. And you got to trust that, um, presenting yourself compellingly. Uh, will attract the right people to, to your university. Um, so it comes with finding, you know, and we've talked about ways to kind of find those, those, those stories, some of which are [00:42:00] kind of no brainers. Um, but tell your own story first, irrespective of what everyone else is doing, what everyone else looks like, tell you for you and be in your character.
Andy Fuller: Um, and, and I think you got a better shot at success that way.
John Azoni: Yeah, that's great advice. The first episode of this podcast was all about that, uh, differentiating, um, through storytelling. And I think I 100% agree with you. I think you're spot on that. Like at a certain point, there's only so many words to describe a higher education experience.
John Azoni: People are come, people are coming out of high school or maybe going back to school as adults. And they're, they're learning something so that they can advance their lives, advance their careers, make an impact on the world. Okay. So there's only, I mean, there's thousands and thousands of schools, only so many words to use to describe different ways that you do that.
John Azoni: Exactly. So, so the different, the differentiation, yeah, by comparison is tough, but, um, but when you, but like those [00:43:00] stories, it's really just kind of a natural. Differentiator is telling, telling stories that only exist for you, you know, and they might exist in a similar way somewhere, somewhere else, like, you know, someone, uh, you know, did something cool, got a cool award, you got a cool job, you know, whatever, but those stories might exist other places too, but like no one else, no other school can claim that story and that emotional connection that you've, that you've created through telling that story.
John Azoni: Um, and I think that's why I like. Yeah. You know, so much, so much money is probably invested on having marketing consultants come in and, and, and, and try to pick the right words and things like that. But, um, and, and that's important. I mean, it should, you should know, you should get clear on your audience. I did, uh, um, have a story that came out about Walsh college here in, uh, Michigan, how the, in partnership with them getting, they had a change of leadership, they got really clear on who their, um, student.
John Azoni: is that they're going [00:44:00] after. And then they, and then they told the story and it was like those two combined, um, you know, learning who, who they're not for was important. Uh, and then they were able to increase enrollment by, by over 40%, by, by, you know, you know, by getting, getting specific like that. But, uh, uh, you know, at a certain point, um, there's also, you kind of got to break away from that and be like, all right, just what.
John Azoni: What's going on here? That's that's like really that's
Andy Fuller: compelling. Well, I think that's that's a great example and and I think what you said something really important there because Regardless of of who you are. I mean whether you're Notre Dame whether you're a Walsh. I went to a small liberal arts School called Bethel University, which is here in Mishawaka.
Andy Fuller: Whatever size you are, you're always trying to attract the right student I mean there are universities and I would say Notre Dame is probably one of them who they don't need like Volume of people but everyone's looking for the right people regardless of who you are to come to your your institution and so being [00:45:00] authentic and and and kind of raising that flag like here's who We are.
Andy Fuller: And if you resonate with this, hey, check us out. I think it's something everyone is after, including Notre Dame.
John Azoni: That's awesome. Well, this has been a great conversation. I appreciate you coming on the show. Where can people connect with you at?
Andy Fuller: Yeah. So, um, I am on, uh, threads, Andy underscore Fuller, uh, and then same handle on, on Instagram as well.
Andy Fuller: And then, uh, Andy Fuller on, on LinkedIn.
John Azoni: How, how has your, uh, PS follow up question here? How's, how's your personal experience on Threads been with that Andy, under Andy Fuller account? Yeah,
Andy Fuller: I, I've liked it. Um, I think, you know, it's, it's funny. I, um, uh, there's some sorting that needs to happen because, you know, you import your, your Instagram following automatically and the people you follow on Instagram, you're not interested in a Twitter like experience from them.
Andy Fuller: Um, so there's been some sorting and trying to get my. What was my Twitter community, um, you know, to [00:46:00] be replicated on, on threads. And we're still sorting through that. I think overall the platform is fine. Um, it largely does what it needs to do. It feels like, and, and, you know, believe it or not, Zuck does not care what I think, but, uh, uh, it feels like they need to iterate a little more quickly.
Andy Fuller: Uh, I think to, to, to stick with some of the momentum they have, but, um. You know, for me personally, I love it. I think it's been great.
John Azoni: Awesome. All right. Awesome. Well, it's been great. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, John. It's been a pleasure. Thank you.
