#78 - University of Limerick’s Award-Winning Storytelling Campaign, and Student-Led TikTok Content Engine
w/ Michelle MC Mahon
Digital Marketing and Content Officer, University of Limerick
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SHOW NOTES
In this episode, we chat with Michelle McMahon, Digital Marketing Officer at the University of Limerick. Michelle brings a wealth of experience, including her time as a journalist, radio presenter, and head of social innovation at Fleischmann Hillard. At UL, Michelle oversees innovative projects like the student-led social media officer program and the award-winning Stay Curious campaign.
Michelle shares how her team creates impactful storytelling campaigns, integrates video-first strategies, and empowers students to lead content creation. From heartwarming Christmas videos to showcasing groundbreaking research, Michelle reveals how her small but agile team manages to stand out in higher ed marketing.
Key Takeaways:
The Power of Storytelling: Leading with human-centered narratives is more impactful than focusing solely on course attributes. “Who cares, and why should they care?” is the guiding question for Michelle’s team.
Video-First Strategy: UL adopts a cinematic approach for brand campaigns while leveraging lo-fi, student-led content for platforms like TikTok, ensuring authenticity and relatability.
Collaborative Marketing Models: A small, centralized team with a decentralized structure can excel by fostering collaboration and respecting expertise across departments.
Student-Led Content Creation: UL's innovative approach to empowering students on TikTok and Instagram leads to engaging, fun, and peer-to-peer content that resonates with younger audiences.
The Magic of Christmas Campaigns: UL’s heartfelt holiday video proved that storytelling can boost internal morale and inspire pride while showcasing institutional values.
Metrics That Matter: Reach and engagement drive UL’s brand awareness campaigns, with comments offering valuable insights into audience sentiment and resonance.
Featured Campaigns:
Stay Curious Postgraduate Campaign – A campaign featuring inspiring stories like Alison Sweeney’s journey from music teacher to senior music therapist.
Research Series – Showcasing UL researchers’ work under four pillars: smarter, inclusive, healthier, and sustainable societies.
Student-Led Social Media Content – Fun, authentic TikTok and Instagram videos created by UL’s student social media officers.
Christmas Video 2023 – A heartwarming story celebrating childhood dreams and UL’s role in making them a reality.
Resources mentioned:
Connect with Michelle:
Connect with UL:
Connect with Host John Azoni:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnazoni
Website: https://unveild.tv
Newsletter: https://unveild.tv/newsletter
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Transcript (done with AI so only about 90% accurate):
00:00:00:05 - 00:00:32:02
John Azoni
My guest today is Michelle McMahan. Michelle joined University of Limerick in 2021 following a five year stint as head of social innovation at Fleishman HILLARD Ireland and previous roles as a lifestyle publication editor and commercial radio presenter. As part of her role in L, Michelle manages the Student Social Media Officer program, bringing authentic student led content to US channels and produces video content for the university's multi award winning Stay Curious campaign.
00:00:32:02 - 00:00:34:01
John Azoni
So Michelle, welcome to the show.
00:00:34:16 - 00:00:36:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
Thank you for having me. Lovely to meet you.
00:00:37:09 - 00:00:41:14
John Azoni
Cool. Let's start off on a personal note. What's something that people would be surprised to know about you?
00:00:42:05 - 00:00:44:04
Michelle Mc Mahon
Well, there's not there. I can't say. Obviously.
00:00:45:15 - 00:00:46:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
You know.
00:00:46:07 - 00:01:07:16
Michelle Mc Mahon
You did mention in in my intro there that before moving to education, I did work in media. So it might not be a surprise that I was a journalist and a radio presenter. But maybe the fact that I spent years deejaying in nightclubs might be so Played a lot of big clubs in the region here. A couple of high profile events, very well-known Irish festival, but my all time favorite was a regular monthly gig for an LGBTQ.
00:01:07:23 - 00:01:26:18
Michelle Mc Mahon
I love Nice, which graciously allowed me, even in a very cool club, to thoroughly indulge my passion for terrible pop music and TV dance. That was a lot of fun. A celebrity DJ case. But these days, it's more likely to be is for a Disney soundtrack for my kids. Imitating me might be coming back on the cards down the line.
00:01:26:18 - 00:01:27:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
Who knows?
00:01:27:20 - 00:01:28:12
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah.
00:01:28:14 - 00:01:34:06
John Azoni
Oh, man. We should have had you, like, remix the intro music for this episode.
00:01:34:10 - 00:01:38:05
Michelle Mc Mahon
I knew I'd have to do something with Equipment Day job, but I'm open to challenge.
00:01:39:06 - 00:01:45:02
John Azoni
What's like your favorite jam to play? You know, do you have, like, a favorite song or favorite transition or.
00:01:45:19 - 00:02:04:08
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah. I mean, I love 90 year old dance, like that kind of EDM. That whole vibe of that was was just so fun. And I still find and they're all coming back because all of those tracks are now being sampled with all of the cool kids, you know, and the songs come out and I have the, you know, three and a five year old like, how do you know?
00:02:04:08 - 00:02:20:05
Michelle Mc Mahon
A I'm like, I don't know what this song is, but I know what the song that came before it is. And you know, you're getting older and that starts to happen. But my three and five year old can sing. However, I would say the reason is deejays better off alone from start to finish the reading. Prior to that, I feel like the kids are like, if you want to.
00:02:21:12 - 00:02:24:12
John Azoni
So is ace of base considered nineties zero.
00:02:25:00 - 00:02:33:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
I mean it was absolutely you know I would you know the design. Yeah all that she wants yeah all of us. I'm here for all of us.
00:02:33:22 - 00:02:38:16
John Azoni
Okay. I don't know if I know too much euro electro electronic music beyond this.
00:02:38:16 - 00:02:39:17
Michelle Mc Mahon
And I continue to say.
00:02:41:07 - 00:02:41:18
Michelle Mc Mahon
Okay.
00:02:43:00 - 00:03:00:21
John Azoni
So we're talking about doing content creation, right? And you and I had connected on LinkedIn about University of Limerick's video content. You had sent me a few videos that I'm excited to look at because when I watched them, I, I got I don't invite everyone on the podcast. I will just tell you that I, you know, I have to kind of get excited.
00:03:01:06 - 00:03:09:12
John Azoni
You know, I have to be jazzed about something that you're doing. I have people send me stuff all the time that's like, Hey, you want to talk about this? And I say, No more often than I say yes. So.
00:03:10:23 - 00:03:11:22
Michelle Mc Mahon
So you're here.
00:03:12:09 - 00:03:18:15
John Azoni
Your content has impressed me. So let's start at just tell me about University of Limerick. What's unique about the school?
00:03:19:05 - 00:03:36:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, So University Limerick is it's located in the beautiful mid-west of Ireland. So I'm you know, I'm thinking in particular of an American audience who may not be too sure, but there's always, I feel, an urge to come and visit Ireland at some stage. I'd encourage them to avoid the typical Dublin trip and come to this side of the country.
00:03:36:15 - 00:03:58:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
I am sure the Midwest, which is absolutely stunning. You're close to the famed Wild Atlantic way and actually something quite interesting about University Limerick is the campus that stretches across two counties. So you're in Limerick obviously enough, but if you cross the beautiful living bridge, you head over to our north campus and that's in Coach Care and it's home to our famed Irish Warriors Academy of Music and Dance.
00:03:58:18 - 00:04:20:19
Michelle Mc Mahon
Like I'll admit, Tobias McCleary is the best. Quentin Ireland. The US has been voted the best student campus in Ireland on multiple occasions. It's a beautiful place to study and to work. And then there's like a huge, you know, there is a huge variety of courses. So there's faculties with business, science and engineering, arts, humanities, social sciences and education, health science and so there's a big spread of available courses funded by the Coast Guard as well.
00:04:21:02 - 00:04:25:17
Michelle Mc Mahon
But I think I lead with their location location because the setting itself is pretty spectacular.
00:04:26:06 - 00:04:45:19
John Azoni
Awesome. That's like I think was maybe the biggest influencer of me when I was picking a college. I, I was like, I was going to go, People have listen to podcast. I've heard me say this couple of times before, but I, I was going to go to Art Institute of Chicago, which is in like a city like, you know, concrete jungle type of thing.
00:04:46:03 - 00:05:04:14
John Azoni
And then my dad was like, you know what, let's just check out Baltimore, Maryland. Let's just check out this art school out there. I was like, I know what you like, but all right, whatever. Free trip. And we went and like, the cherry blossoms were in bloom and it was like the weather was pretty mild, like Chicago weather was like Chicago.
00:05:04:14 - 00:05:11:02
John Azoni
Weather was very windy and like, cold. And so I was like, All right, fine, I'll go to Baltimore.
00:05:12:02 - 00:05:32:02
Michelle Mc Mahon
So I think if I ever chose to spend time in Baltimore, I would immediately alienate myself from everybody around me because I don't think I could start today without singing. Good Morning, Baltimore from Hairspray. So I think go to Preston 2 hours every day unchecked. And I think that would greatly annoy everyone in the vicinity. So maybe are.
00:05:32:03 - 00:05:32:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
You in the.
00:05:33:19 - 00:05:36:03
John Azoni
Are you like a theater person theater.
00:05:37:09 - 00:05:48:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
Thing? So herein lies my dilemma. You know, it's I love it. I'm incredibly passionate about it. I know all the words I can that I need to know. So I'll leave on the agenda.
00:05:49:12 - 00:05:52:01
John Azoni
Are you are you excited about the wicked movie coming out?
00:05:52:02 - 00:05:54:04
Michelle Mc Mahon
I'm already booked to go opening night. Yes.
00:05:54:14 - 00:05:57:23
Michelle Mc Mahon
Very exciting.
00:05:57:23 - 00:06:10:23
John Azoni
I saw some. I don't know. It's like a tick tock or a tweet or something like that. But there's like, if you're not a theater kid, good luck trying to hear Ariana Grande sing any of the songs, because like everyone, everyone in the theater will be singing.
00:06:11:12 - 00:06:19:06
Michelle Mc Mahon
I think you just have to accept that. It's like it doesn't have to have a singalong event on the ticket for it to be a singalong event, and I'm fine with that.
00:06:19:06 - 00:06:19:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah.
00:06:20:01 - 00:06:31:22
John Azoni
That's awesome. Okay, so tell me about like, where do you find yourself and your maqam role? Like what? Tell me about your role. Tell me about your team. Anything that's worth mentioning beyond the intro, that intro to U.S..
00:06:32:13 - 00:06:52:10
Michelle Mc Mahon
So University in Iraq operates a kind of a devolved model to do marketing. So this is Central McCombs team, which has marketing comms and like we're all the one unit, the marketing team within that is really small. So we have our head of marketing and brand. Then I'm in there as digital marketing officer. We have our brand officer, a campaign officer and marketing assistant, and that's it.
00:06:52:10 - 00:07:15:12
Michelle Mc Mahon
So anything that kind of comes out from that, the central marketing team will be as a result of our work or kind of collaborations between us and other people in our department or various departments and faculties around the institution. So it's it's small but mighty, I would say. And there are challenges that come along with the devolved or supposed decentralize, depending on what language people use and their own setups.
00:07:15:23 - 00:07:38:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
There can be emergence as well. I think there's an agility to a small team that means you can kind of decide you're going to do something, just go induced, which is really nice, but there's a huge amount of effort to bring people on board with us so that if, you know, if our work is at a brand awareness level and it's top of the funnel, you do still have to make sure that what you're doing works for the rest of the campus community.
00:07:38:07 - 00:07:54:14
Michelle Mc Mahon
So if it then goes to a faculty, you have to hone in on faculty specific messaging or of course director, you need course specific messaging. You need to make sure that I suppose the approach of the campaign, the visuals, that that can kind of trickle down into each of those areas. So that that's an interesting challenge at times.
00:07:54:14 - 00:07:59:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
But yeah, for us it's more agile central team doing our best.
00:08:00:20 - 00:08:22:01
John Azoni
That's great. And you know, there's a lot of advantages to being a small team. And one of the things that I love about being a business owner and it's just me, you know, I run unveiled with the help of a lot of, you know, contracted employees and freelancers and stuff like that. But at the end of the day, it's just me in this little, you know, ten by ten foot office meter for you.
00:08:22:01 - 00:08:23:13
John Azoni
I guess that would be what would it look like?
00:08:23:15 - 00:08:24:14
Michelle Mc Mahon
It's like you can use.
00:08:25:12 - 00:08:49:10
John Azoni
Three meters by three meters. But yeah, like, if I want to do something, I just do it. Like, I don't have to ask anybody and, like, I will not go back to a salary, like a salary job because of that. Because like and I work with some schools that, you know, are just bigger universities and it's like the bigger the university gets, the more rules there are, the more like protocols there are.
00:08:49:17 - 00:08:56:21
John Azoni
I mean, just getting a simple video done requires so much back and forth with like paperwork and like numbers and numbers.
00:08:56:21 - 00:08:57:20
Michelle Mc Mahon
We are facing.
00:08:57:20 - 00:09:03:11
John Azoni
It's like it's like, oh my gosh, this is not that complicated.
00:09:04:17 - 00:09:26:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, is it's this can be challenging for sure. That it can be difficult. And I think to the point you kind of raise about the amount of people decisions have to go through. We spoke about that recently. You know, a situation of this analysis, paralysis. So the more you think about something and the more people, the more eyeballs that have to go on it before anything happens, the less likely it is that anything happens at all.
00:09:26:16 - 00:09:57:05
Michelle Mc Mahon
So I think it's there's been a bit of a journey of discovery there because FARA is that devolved decentralized model isn't actually that old. And it came in without change. Management processes landed. So that was really challenging. But there's been a real effort between, I would say, the central team led by my line manager and the other departments of active we work with to kind of figure out the best way to work together and trust each department knows what they're doing and you know, everybody's an expert in something, so trust them to do this.
00:09:57:05 - 00:10:02:08
Michelle Mc Mahon
They don't have to do and that they're tasked to do it. But it's it's not easy, you know, It has challenges for sure.
00:10:02:21 - 00:10:19:18
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. So getting in to the topic of the day, what would you say are your main points of view on storytelling and like higher ed marketing in general? Like what do you see too much of what don't you see enough of? Stand on your soapbox for a little bit here.
00:10:19:18 - 00:10:42:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
SHORT Well, I think you got the key word in the question, to be honest. It says it all. Storytelling. I see. Not enough storytelling needs more story. And look, I get this. I mean, people want to promote their courses. They want to get bums on seats. You know, that's kind of the objective. But for me, I'm certain for the team I work with who, you know, there's a lot to be said for being surrounded by great people and people that you trust and you know, and you get on with.
00:10:43:03 - 00:11:06:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
But we are very clear on asking ourselves all the time, Yeah, who cares and why should they care and how do we make them care? And for me that it's always, always, always lived with people. So I get that you might want to do more, of course, but find me an incredible student or graduate that's come to that course or is on it with a great personal, impactful story to tell.
00:11:06:07 - 00:11:31:06
Michelle Mc Mahon
It's far less explicit about the course attributes, but it's far more impactful, especially again, where we're sitting at the top of the funnel, where what you want is awareness. You want people to know, I suppose for me, I want people to know that if they choose University of Limerick, they're going to find a place to call home for a really formative part of their lives, and they're going to find people that they want to spend that formative part of their life with.
00:11:31:13 - 00:11:36:02
Michelle Mc Mahon
And that's that the core, I suppose, guiding principle whom we're creating.
00:11:36:14 - 00:12:05:23
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. And I think two things that made me think of is, one, I think a lot of universities think they're telling stories because they're doing marketing, but there's actually very little storytelling actually happening. So the point where I've kind of being like, well, you know, the way that we use the word storytelling is kind of like the way that, you know, teenagers use the word literally, you know, like literally almost never means literally in their vernacular.
00:12:05:23 - 00:12:24:06
John Azoni
So I'm kind of like, I'm just weird. I like nerd out about this stuff. But like, for probably a decade, I have been like, you know, studying storytelling and, like, really being bothered by the fact that people use this this word storytelling wrong. And in the last couple of years, I've just been like, you know, it's just our language.
00:12:24:06 - 00:12:43:12
John Azoni
Like people mean could mean two different things when they say storytelling. It could be an actual story or it could be just creatively packaged information that's maybe a little more creative than just point blank like a sales video. So I've come to accept that, and I call that declarative storytelling versus narrative storytelling nice.
00:12:43:20 - 00:12:45:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
Like you've made the distinction and you.
00:12:45:13 - 00:12:46:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
Stayed.
00:12:46:00 - 00:12:48:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
On that even though you've had given storytelling being used.
00:12:50:12 - 00:12:50:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah.
00:12:51:06 - 00:13:09:15
John Azoni
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So but yeah, definitely. And then the other thing that makes me think of is like what you said about like top of funnel, bottom of funnel. It's like people aren't ready for the sales message, you know, further up the funnel. But when they are ready, you know, it's like, okay, just say what the thing is like, Just say what the features and benefits are like.
00:13:09:15 - 00:13:33:15
John Azoni
We can just convert people. We don't have to like go on this roundabout story about my grandfather was a in the Civil War and whatever and all this stuff. So it really just like it just matters. And I think not enough schools are thinking about who should care about this and why should they care and where are they going to watch this and what kind of time commitment are they realistically going to give this video?
00:13:33:15 - 00:13:48:18
John Azoni
And so it really becomes about designing the storytelling for a specific audience. And I think where a lot of schools go wrong as they make one video and then they expect, well, this is a three minute video. I want people to be scrolling on TikTok and they're going to watch this whole.
00:13:48:18 - 00:13:51:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
Thing, my whole 3 minutes.
00:13:51:21 - 00:13:52:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
And I just.
00:13:52:13 - 00:14:11:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
Look into that at my title cards. So I'm hoping that they're going to hang on. That drives me insane. I'm like, You have got like, you've got 3 seconds. If you're lucky to get attention here, pull out one incredible quote. Put it at the front of your slightly. I know you can see it anyway, but get something to stop people.
00:14:11:07 - 00:14:19:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
And if that if there was one thing I could get people to stop doing, it would be that it would be there. You know, here's my intro to my brand at the start of my video.
00:14:19:22 - 00:14:20:19
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:14:21:13 - 00:14:41:16
John Azoni
Totally. That could be a whole nother episode. Maybe we'll do a compilation episode because this is a theme I've talked to many marketers about. Like just the obsession with the logo, you know, and how it's just ruining videos left and right. So you seem to be very video first. Like, would you agree with that?
00:14:42:06 - 00:15:01:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
I would, yeah. Certainly. From my own universe, as mentioned, which is the central marketing team. So yeah we we would be very video first and typically for us this maybe an overarching brand campaign and specific ones for say post-grad and undergrad, maybe another one where there might be a collaborative series with the likes of research I sent you on I think one of those videos as well.
00:15:01:10 - 00:15:23:12
Michelle Mc Mahon
So typically for us the aim is kind of a suite of engaging. Usually first person videos will often be kind of a hero video. The take bits from each of the persona videos to level up to this kind of one overall picture of whatever it is we happen to be talking about. And then you have the persona videos, which have been the personal experiences of staff, student graduates, whichever that the content series is.
00:15:23:23 - 00:15:37:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
And then to your point that you just me, that might be the two minute video. And of course you want everybody to watch your two or two and a half minute video on YouTube where it's in the correct proportions and you want to get million views on it. And I really want that embedded on your web page. So that can happen.
00:15:37:21 - 00:16:09:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
So when we have that score after that, then it's okay, well, how to repurpose this for various time. So where it needs the portrait at is even though the landscape shot is beautiful, we need a real version. So we have to get the portrait one. We have to get the short cuts. We have to get the cuts for the advertising agency, which might be 7 to 15 seconds and talk about Kill your darlings when it comes to editing and pulling out this this one little hook and hoping that that's enough to convert or accepting that sometimes that's all you get because maybe they'll sign up for something based on that, but they still won't watch
00:16:09:03 - 00:16:28:17
Michelle Mc Mahon
the full video. But usually we start with where is the core story? Where is this hero piece going to come from? Who are going to be the contributors to that? And then how do we maximize the outputs of everything else? So we'll have an individual video for each of those personas as well. You know yourself that you do an interview for what ends up being a two minute video with interviews an hour long.
00:16:28:22 - 00:16:48:04
Michelle Mc Mahon
So you will write up that interview as well. And then there'd be like a long form article that might sit on the website, it might go in publications, we might be doing alumni magazine, we might be doing LinkedIn articles. So it's kind of maximizing the output of the effort that went in, but making sure that each of those outputs is appropriate to the channel and the audience that we're aiming for.
00:16:48:17 - 00:17:11:13
John Azoni
I love that and I love that sort of distribution first mindset because I think when you know how you need to distribute something, you approach the video production way differently. If we're just going for one, two or three minute video, the set of questions that I would ask is a lot less and probably a little bit different than if I knew we were creating five.
00:17:11:13 - 00:17:31:02
John Azoni
We were also creating like five top of funnel videos for YouTube shorts out of this interview and then five mid funnel and five bottom of funnel. Like we would have separate strategies with that interview to arrive at those. We wouldn't just shoot for a two or three minute video and hope that we can pull some top of funnel stuff out of that.
00:17:31:02 - 00:17:41:12
John Azoni
So that's why I really think that it changes the game when you when you have a distribution strategy, everything that you produce with video becomes more strategic and intentional.
00:17:42:04 - 00:18:07:11
Michelle Mc Mahon
Absolutely, yes. And I think we've all been on the other side of that as well, where somebody, you know, maybe that you might be working of the best in the world. I've made this video, What can you do with it? But the asset is produced as it's laced with pain. So like not getting to that point and having all those considerations before you ever turn on a camera or visit a location, having thought about that in advance completely changes the game, changes the approach, and it leads to, in our experience, much better outcomes.
00:18:07:23 - 00:18:26:04
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. All right. I'm excited to talk about these four. You sent me four different videos that were great. I'm excited to unpack these. I want to start with the research series video, and I told you earlier, like 95% of my audience just listens to the audio. So we'll have to sort of explain, try to narrate these videos.
00:18:26:04 - 00:18:29:03
John Azoni
So this will be like good like practice for like your alt text.
00:18:29:11 - 00:18:32:06
Michelle Mc Mahon
You know, So.
00:18:32:06 - 00:18:51:13
John Azoni
So yeah, let's start with the research series. This is something I'm always pushing my audience to do, you know as well where interesting research content that's palatable, you know, for a general audience. So where does you stand as a research institution? How are you guys trying to get that out into the world through video? And then tell us about this one example.
00:18:51:13 - 00:19:09:14
Michelle Mc Mahon
Sure. Luke. So, I mean, there's incredible research coming out of U.S. and there's a great team in unit research with a really strong strategy. So last year you had a very young institute. So last year celebrated its 50th anniversary and there were some projects commissioned to kind of celebrate that in that year of anniversary, and this particular project was one of them.
00:19:09:14 - 00:19:35:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
So we had the we already had this postgraduate Stay Curious campaign. It had been enormously successful and we met with the research team and they were keen to replicate the style of that book with the researchers. So it was a collaborative effort between research and marketing, and it was one of those really nice collaborations. I think we've all had the other side, but this was really nice and again, I think it was one of those experiences where everybody brought something to the table and everybody appreciated each other's expertise.
00:19:35:10 - 00:19:55:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
And you know, for us that meant like the people working in research were the ones reaching out to the researchers. So it wasn't always going on making a video. I've never spoken to you before, but we're working with them on a daily basis. And there was just that level of trust there, which is so helpful. And I thought what we were trying to do is showcase that across all of these departments and faculties.
00:19:55:04 - 00:20:21:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
There is this one true north goal that all of the researchers, I suppose, are working in collaboration to make the world a better place through the lens of the four pillars of Ucl's research strategy. So that's all based on working towards a smarter society, a more inclusive society, a healthier society, and a sustainable society. So we interviewed two researchers on who kind of work under each of those pillars, even though they weren't all the same faculty.
00:20:21:00 - 00:20:38:22
Michelle Mc Mahon
So there was this kind of cross-departmental faculty collaboration in that as well. So as well, to paint the picture a little bit, it's over the course of about 2 minutes, you see these eight different you are researchers. It's a combination of very creative, very and very mature, very well known academics and you see them go about their work.
00:20:38:22 - 00:20:58:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
It's all shot on the campus while their voices are telling us about the importance of the research, why it matters, and of course, ultimately why they've chosen to be the place from which they've tried to make the world a better place. And it opened with Mike that Rothko, who really was probably one of our best known researchers, you know, a global top 20 chemist.
00:20:58:07 - 00:21:20:12
Michelle Mc Mahon
And he and I just love like it opens with him saying it's not just molecules, it's not just publications, people. And that to me it's just that sets the tone so perfectly. I think academia in particular can be so lofty at times. And you mentioned about making it palatable and accessible. We had people I think, again, the fear sometimes can be, Oh, you're dumbing it down.
00:21:20:12 - 00:21:36:01
Michelle Mc Mahon
If you talk about this, you're not opening it up. And I think what we were trying to do through that series was take away some of that loftiness of it. It's no less impactful and impressive for what you're trying to showcase is just these are good men and women doing what they can to make the world a better place.
00:21:36:14 - 00:21:53:11
Michelle Mc Mahon
And they're doing it here and they're doing it now. And if you are a researcher, you're somebody who might want to step into that space. University of Limerick is a place where you would be welcome to do that and we want you on our team. So it was a real pleasure and privilege to look at it in that way and to try and open it up to a wider audience.
00:21:54:03 - 00:22:08:14
John Azoni
I thought it was a good example and we'll put the link in the description for all four of these videos. If anyone wants to go in, I do encourage you to go watch them, but it was a good example of like, you know, it wasn't like a two minute video about one piece of research. It was just like a broad overview.
00:22:08:15 - 00:22:28:08
John Azoni
Here's our point of view on research, which I think is very different than saying, Here's why you should come to you out for the research. You know, it's a slight tweak, but it's more showing why you should come than telling. And I thought that was a really good way to do that. And just like you said, a good hook that just kind of like ropes you in.
00:22:28:08 - 00:22:34:06
John Azoni
And honestly, I watched it. I was like, if I was more academic than I am, I would want to go study research.
00:22:34:06 - 00:22:58:01
Michelle Mc Mahon
There was yeah, I look, I think, you know, it's a challenging one, like and research is a difficult one for marketers because you have that kind of inherent tension between the field people and the people who are doing the work. And that and I think to your point, research the team in Iowa, they got us and it makes a difference.
00:22:58:08 - 00:23:17:15
Michelle Mc Mahon
So you can't make a series of videos about a paper that just got published in an academic journal. I mean, you can you could look at views on this or engagement on it. They trusted us to get our side of it right. And I think on our side as well, it was really important for us to respect the academics and the fact that this isn't necessarily in their wheelhouse either.
00:23:17:15 - 00:23:38:09
Michelle Mc Mahon
What we were asking them to do, you know, So we gave them a really comprehensive briefing to actually share the questions we did is money runs in as many takes on the days they were happy with. We shared drafts, we share the articles. It was really important that to all of us who were filming and going through the process, that they felt like part of us and that we were ultimately making something that they would be proud of as well.
00:23:38:09 - 00:23:58:06
Michelle Mc Mahon
And when they actually did come out and was a really nice response to it, but one of the researchers featured is their gear and incredibly impressive researcher named SFI. Young researcher of the Year last year. And she shared the video publicly and said, You captured the spirit of research perfectly. I honestly floated home from work that day. I was so pleased.
00:23:58:06 - 00:24:07:16
Michelle Mc Mahon
I was so proud that we had done their stories justice. I think that's just, you know, there's just such a win in that for sure.
00:24:07:16 - 00:24:31:08
John Azoni
As a videographer, especially when I'm the one editing something like the payment almost as much as like, you know, being able to put food on the table. Is the client being happy and being like, Oh my gosh, you said it perfectly. You know, this is exactly what I feel about our organization that I couldn't express any other way and you captured it.
00:24:31:08 - 00:24:53:16
John Azoni
So I think, yeah, that's such a win. And I think that we don't think about that enough when we talk about like ROI a lot in video and like this external ROI. Well, if I spend $5,000 on a video, I need to make $10,000. But it's sort of like, well, what's the ROI of like a hammer? You know, like it's it becomes a very valuable tool for doing things over a long period of time.
00:24:53:16 - 00:25:00:17
John Azoni
And if you get that tool right, you know, and it becomes a really useful tool, it's like unlimited ROI.
00:25:01:10 - 00:25:07:08
Michelle Mc Mahon
I love that I might sell that one. I'm going to reference my hammer in future meeting. Thank you. I'm going to see this.
00:25:08:18 - 00:25:35:00
John Azoni
I think it's a good analogy to to present to leadership who want to see like really hard numbers out of out of marketing. It's like, here's a comment object, here's a cast iron skillet. What's the URL of your cast iron skillet anyways? So I'm on a cast iron skillet kick lately because my wife was asking me what I wanted for Christmas and I had to come up with some ideas and I was researching.
00:25:35:00 - 00:25:49:12
John Azoni
I'm like bingeing all the Top Chef episodes. And so I'm kind of like I bought myself a professional knife, sat, you know, and knives, you know, moving on to the cast iron skillet, some stuff like that.
00:25:49:12 - 00:25:52:10
Michelle Mc Mahon
So you're on Christmas dinner duty this year, so, Right.
00:25:53:02 - 00:25:54:23
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:55:20 - 00:26:15:14
John Azoni
So what are the challenges around research storytelling? You know, in marketing, you kind of alluded to this a little bit, and what I've heard from others is just, you know, academic folks just not really seeing the value in a creative view of their research. I don't know if that's the case for you or if there are other barriers for you guys in making that video.
00:26:16:06 - 00:26:40:16
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, look, I mean, this this project and this process was a really pleasant one. And I think there's ways in which we just got really lucky there. But again, I think it's down to having the respect for the academics that is appropriate and preparing that. Like these are really, really smart people, but sitting down in front of a camera talking about their work is not necessarily something that they're going to be particularly comfortable with or it's not part of their day to day.
00:26:40:22 - 00:27:08:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
And it was really important that we created an atmosphere where they felt safe, appreciated, comfortable, and, you know, if you need to see it a different way, and also that they understood in the process where we were kind of maybe asking for things to be simplified down or level up because sometimes the minute details were far too much on you for a wider audience rather than saying, Can you do it this way, it was, Here's what we're trying to get out of this.
00:27:09:01 - 00:27:34:08
Michelle Mc Mahon
This is the overall goal. This is where the content was this. And I think I don't think there's any way in which we could have overexplain that self, because when you're dealing with people who deal with minor details all the time, you can't give them enough of that. So like I say, I think it was a big deal to give them a proper comprehensive briefing document in advance, to give the questions in advance, to give an opportunity to talk about the questions in advance and tell them exactly what the goals of the project were.
00:27:34:08 - 00:27:50:23
Michelle Mc Mahon
And I think it happens sometimes where I've definitely been guilty of in the past, where you can ask me, Can you jump into this video for me? And you don't really explain the process. So somebody else is instantly on the back foot because they don't know exactly what's going on. And I think we all feel a lot more comfortable when we do.
00:27:51:05 - 00:28:04:05
Michelle Mc Mahon
So I think it was just a really positive process and one in which we maybe avoided some of the common pitfalls by marketing and the research team working really closely together and having a good plan before we did anything.
00:28:04:14 - 00:28:26:03
John Azoni
Yeah, for sure. And that's super important. And I have found that to be a transformational piece of advice is the more you can prep the subject, the better. I used to be of the mindset that, like I want this to come across this interview to be very off the cuff and conversational. So I'm not going to share the questions with you because I don't want you to come scripted.
00:28:26:16 - 00:28:41:20
John Azoni
And that all change for me. The first podcast that I was on and I was like, I need to know what we're going to talk about because I can't wing it. And like, I'm actually the type of person that would be more conversational if I was prepared ahead of time.
00:28:42:03 - 00:28:43:02
Michelle Mc Mahon
You feel more comfortable?
00:28:43:18 - 00:28:50:21
John Azoni
Yeah, I'm like, That's what I'm doing too. Everybody else is like withholding the information that's going to make this thing better.
00:28:52:04 - 00:28:56:19
Michelle Mc Mahon
I'm the problem. It's me.
00:28:56:19 - 00:29:16:00
John Azoni
So yeah, I'm all for that. And I do, you know, once in a while I will get someone that is kind of scripted and still very nervous. It's pretty rare, though, you know, usually they kind of go, Oh, I can't believe I didn't even look at my notes this whole time, you know? But at least they come feeling like they know what's going on.
00:29:16:13 - 00:29:20:06
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah. So I think it definitely helps. Definitely.
00:29:20:06 - 00:29:35:23
John Azoni
Yeah. So let's see. Next up is a video of alum Alison Sweeney. This was the one that I watched initially, and I posted a post on LinkedIn about it because I thought was really good. So describe this video for our listeners and then talk about how this came about, what what the outcomes been like.
00:29:36:13 - 00:29:57:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, so this was the second phase of our post-graduate marketing campaign, which is the state Curia. So the whole messaging on this is, you know, curious what might you achieve if you opted for postgraduate studies. So the first phase was by two and a half coming up on three years going now, and we had four graduates that we profiled and come this year it was time to refresh that, introduce new faces, new voices.
00:29:57:10 - 00:30:35:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
And when we were looking to graduate that we could tell the story of kind of under this umbrella. We had been aware of Alison Sweeney. And so she is a music therapist and she's the senior music therapist at Temple Street Children's Hospital and very well known Children's Hospital in Dublin. And she just had this wonderful journey where she switched career and so she had gone to university, graduate, moved to London, was working as a music teacher, and she had this and she describes this kind of epiphany moment where she was looking at the research around music therapy, her own passion, I suppose, for music, but also that, you know, she wanted to make a difference,
00:30:35:21 - 00:31:00:08
Michelle Mc Mahon
she wanted to help people, and she just kind of gave it all up and went back and went back to education, where at a time where there was one part time music therapy job in the entirety of our lives, that was it. So on security and that job prospects, no guarantees whatsoever. And she just had this gut feeling and she went for it and she just went, I believe in it so much I can make a success of it.
00:31:00:08 - 00:31:23:05
Michelle Mc Mahon
So now she's in senior role in this role where she's providing support, she's providing comfort to families through music, which is her passion at a time which is probably the very worst moment in their lives. You know, this is not like the young people going into that hospital. It's not the for it's not you know, this is they're there for serious reasons.
00:31:23:08 - 00:31:45:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
And yeah, it's just incredibly powerful. And you'll have seen through the engagement on that video, people who encountered Alison and her colleagues in COAG on the very darkest days of their lives look back at that and talk about her being a ray of light in those times and it's not like she just four days ago. She takes a chance on something.
00:31:45:03 - 00:32:03:22
Michelle Mc Mahon
She believes she can make a difference and she's believed that all the way into being, you know, one of the, I suppose top people in the country who do this. And I don't think it gets any more stories than that, to be honest. I just think she's incredible. And I think the impact of engagements on her story was just so powerful.
00:32:04:13 - 00:32:27:13
John Azoni
Yeah, it was really good and it was very human and it kind of wrote me in. And the thing I noticed about it was like, you know, normally you don't see a lot of really like high production value videos on Tik Tok or reels or stuff like that, maybe shorts, because, you know, there's a connection between the long form and the short form and traditional advice says it should look very low fi, otherwise people are going to reject it.
00:32:27:18 - 00:32:41:07
John Azoni
And like that wasn't the case for me. I was kind of I got to the end of the round like I watched that whole thing and that was really good and it was beautiful. It was beautifully shot too, and it just felt like it fit on the platform.
00:32:41:07 - 00:33:02:12
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, and it's an interesting one, the kind of stuff that, like you say with the low fi, because we do, we do a huge amount of low fi stuff. You know, there's student content creator program that's all very sound on an iPhone and edit editor, you know on the spot and for the big brand campaigns for us you want it to look beautiful but then when we're doing that we're not looking at necessarily what other universities are doing.
00:33:02:12 - 00:33:24:15
Michelle Mc Mahon
We're looking at, well, what did beautiful storytelling look like and can we do that and can we do it on a budget? But we have some, you know, really incredible, I suppose you mentioned kind of working with as a contractors. We do that obviously for the video stuff as well that wasn't, you know, filmed on an iPhone we worked with excellent partners for all of their kind of big brand theory to a local company for this one as well.
00:33:24:15 - 00:33:59:18
Michelle Mc Mahon
Crude media, they're amazing, but we're really hands on with this. So we've got locations we paper script. We you know, it's very much still remains our baby kind of end to end. And we work with these trusted providers that we have the experience with who we know can make it look beautiful. And I think to the point of not seeing a lot of that cinematic content on the likes of, say, Instagram, sometimes I think that works in your favor because it's unexpected, you know, And yeah, if it's just beautiful, but it's still an ad, I don't think it works, but I think maybe where it does is where it's beautiful.
00:33:59:18 - 00:34:14:18
Michelle Mc Mahon
But also you are still leading with the human. You are still leading with an individual who has this great story. And maybe because it looks a bit different in the timeline, it stands out, but it's got a good in it. The content is there to back up the hopefully pumped up moment.
00:34:15:08 - 00:34:28:03
John Azoni
Yeah, it really becomes more about the down to earth ness of the content. Like, you know, I don't know if you have the word Karens in Ireland like people that like I always want the manager and and stuff like that.
00:34:28:03 - 00:34:29:11
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yes Oh absolutely. Yes.
00:34:31:11 - 00:34:48:08
John Azoni
So like I'll get sucked into like watching these like Karens get arrested videos on TikTok and I'm like, I would watch that if it was a cop's body cam or if it was like a $30,000 cinema camera. Like, it's just the content that.
00:34:49:05 - 00:34:49:11
Michelle Mc Mahon
I'm.
00:34:49:20 - 00:34:51:17
Michelle Mc Mahon
Going, Oh, she's on an airplane today.
00:34:52:05 - 00:34:53:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
I'm there.
00:34:53:13 - 00:34:58:23
John Azoni
Like duct taping her to the seat. Those are my favorite. When some passengers get duct taped to the seat.
00:35:00:11 - 00:35:11:17
Michelle Mc Mahon
Oh, yeah. No, it's. It's all about the story. Yeah. Know, I would be honest with you. They're the hours lost to tick tock in late nights just down the rabbit hole of these cases. Yeah.
00:35:11:23 - 00:35:14:08
Michelle Mc Mahon
They're all.
00:35:14:08 - 00:35:30:03
John Azoni
Right. Well, on that note, you do have kind of a more lo fi setup with student led content creation for your Instagram and TikTok. So tell me about that, because I saw that I perused through some of the videos and I was like, This is a really good scalable model. So tell us about that.
00:35:30:03 - 00:35:49:17
Michelle Mc Mahon
Oh, this is so fun. I just love this. So we put out an open call every year for students to make content for the other channels we pay them, which I think is sometimes a little bit of a differentiator as well, because I know that there are these kinds of programs everywhere and it's, you know, you're a student ambassador or whatever, but these are young adults and they're putting time and effort and skill into something and.
00:35:49:17 - 00:36:06:16
Michelle Mc Mahon
So, you know, as a division, as the marketing division, there was agreement across the board that, no, we were going to do this. And part of our budget for the year had to be set aside to pay students to do this. So we have an hourly rate for them. We have regular meet up with them. Another thing I think stands out a little bit is that it is a two way process.
00:36:06:16 - 00:36:23:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
So I was at a conference recently and I had a conversation with a few different people who ran programs similar in other institutions, but it was more they were always giving brief. It's very much the other way round with us. We gave the students kind of free rein to come to us with ideas. They would all get approved.
00:36:23:08 - 00:36:44:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
A lot of them do because we're kind of, you know, let's take a chance on it unless it's in any way offensive or could be misconstrued. But if there's maybe then we'll try this. And I think it's just so nice that you see them just get braver and braver as the year goes on. And if they get a bit of a history and something does well, they're immediately enthused to come back and kind of pitch something else.
00:36:44:07 - 00:37:07:11
Michelle Mc Mahon
People make friends through us, which is really nice too. The main channel focus for us is Ticktalk, and it's just grown, I think, into this incredibly overwhelmingly positive space and it's just a fun peer to peer content for the sake of being fun, we treat it completely differently to the other brand channels because we kind of figure it's only job is to be fun and there's just such a freedom to be able to play like that.
00:37:07:16 - 00:37:29:09
Michelle Mc Mahon
So don't put brand ads up. We don't put up recruitment news, we just leave it all off. We don't actively try to sell anything on there and that's a conscious decision. But in saying that, I have no doubt that we are selling to current kind of secondary school students in Ireland, that school is just a really fun place to be and this is something you might like to be a part of if you choose to come here.
00:37:29:20 - 00:37:50:02
John Azoni
Yeah, it's a great way to learn, you know, in especially in a very low pressure platform. When I was early in my video career, you know, the company I worked for, we'd have we would have these interns and we would send them out to like, go interview someone or just go do a test project. But like, they had to manage the camera and like, manage the audio and stuff like that.
00:37:50:09 - 00:38:08:14
John Azoni
And like, you know, I remember one time they, they came back and they were like, Shoot, we forgot to hit record on the audio. And like, my boss was so excited. He was like, This is why we do this. It's like the perfect chance for them to fail and then never make that mistake again on a real client.
00:38:08:14 - 00:38:18:18
John Azoni
But I think this like the the evolution of, you know, the short form platforms, it's like the bar's very low. You can try stuff. If it doesn't go anywhere, then it doesn't go anywhere, you know?
00:38:19:02 - 00:38:37:15
Michelle Mc Mahon
And yeah, yeah, there's just this freedom in that. And, you know, for every kind of video that gets a couple of thousand, then one of the guys put up that little piece of audio from a British TV show, Gavin Stacey. And it's just just like really short clip of kind of knocking on the door and step into Christmas and something like that.
00:38:37:15 - 00:39:02:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
There's a hundred thousand views on it and it's it's just feelgood, lovely fun for the sake of being fun. And I think that can be underestimated at times and the importance of that and we learn from them. That's the other side of it as well. You know what I mean? None of us are getting any younger. And you know, if you're still in the same role and you're working with students, the goal every year is getting a bit wider from, you know, when that was when that was me and my team.
00:39:02:10 - 00:39:29:15
Michelle Mc Mahon
And I think we get so much back from it every year as well. And you see, you know, when it comes to the content that they choose to create, you also see that when it comes to making the brand campaigns that might, for example, target an undergraduate audience, you know a bit more about how they talk, how they communicate the things about the university that they actually choose to highlight when they get the control to do so and how might be so very different from what we think is important to potential students.
00:39:29:19 - 00:39:32:10
Michelle Mc Mahon
So it's a really great learning exercise for us as well.
00:39:32:23 - 00:39:46:16
John Azoni
Yeah, I think that's one of the greatest byproducts of a student led content creation engine is the data you get from what's interesting to that generation and what's what's funny to them, what's motivational.
00:39:46:16 - 00:39:51:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
And yeah, and I've learned that there is no guarantee we will actually understand that.
00:39:51:19 - 00:39:52:02
Michelle Mc Mahon
Right.
00:39:52:09 - 00:39:55:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
What's your.
00:39:55:21 - 00:40:01:19
John Azoni
Yeah, this the word preppy has come back around and preppy you something completely different than what it meant.
00:40:02:05 - 00:40:04:15
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, it used to be Morris and Tommy Minifigure.
00:40:05:09 - 00:40:05:18
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah.
00:40:06:14 - 00:40:06:22
Michelle Mc Mahon
It's.
00:40:07:20 - 00:40:29:10
John Azoni
Yeah, now it's like smiley face. I don't get it. I'm like, I keep trying to define it and wrap my head around this. And I'm like, you know, I talked to my daughter and I'm like, Ellie, is that preppy, what you're wearing? And she's like, Yeah, this is preppy. I'm like, All right, sweatpants, I guess. I don't know.
00:40:29:10 - 00:40:33:04
John Azoni
But yeah, I mean, you need that. I mean, that's just how they talk, you know?
00:40:33:04 - 00:40:34:02
Michelle Mc Mahon
That's her face.
00:40:34:09 - 00:40:45:19
John Azoni
Her world is fourth grade, and it's a whole like she'll have her friends over. I'm like, I don't know what they're talking about. They're like, Is this all this? It's a whole nother language.
00:40:46:15 - 00:40:46:18
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah.
00:40:47:00 - 00:40:58:07
John Azoni
Like, you can't even pretend to be a millennial and jump in and make a video that references that like it has to be them.
00:40:58:07 - 00:41:03:19
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah. No freaking I'm. I'm going back. They. I don't understand this, but I trust you, so.
00:41:03:20 - 00:41:04:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
Go for it. Yeah.
00:41:04:14 - 00:41:19:16
Michelle Mc Mahon
Like, I know that's sometimes that's as much as you can do. Like, I will always do the fence check and go, you know, what is this trending sound? And is there any way in which it could be perceived as offensive or anything like that that, you know, I do have my safety checks, but after that, if I make I don't understand why that's funny.
00:41:20:01 - 00:41:27:06
Michelle Mc Mahon
You did. And that's really all it matters, you know? And then suddenly, yeah, like that, a couple hundred thousand, you might still don't get it, but I'm gonna laugh along like I do.
00:41:27:06 - 00:41:30:15
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah. All right. Yeah. Okay.
00:41:30:15 - 00:41:36:10
John Azoni
So lastly, actually, before we move on, I want to say what's the handle for the TAC? Is it just the main.
00:41:36:10 - 00:41:40:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, Yeah, it is the main line. One is.
00:41:40:03 - 00:42:00:12
John Azoni
Okay. All right, so people that listening, go check that out, see what those students are doing. Lastly, we're coming up on Christmas here, so this is a good timing for this recording, this episode in sort of mid to late November. But you guys did a Christmas video and it was very like storyboarded like highly produced and apparently did very well.
00:42:00:12 - 00:42:03:02
John Azoni
So describe that video for us and tell us what that was like.
00:42:03:12 - 00:42:24:17
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, it's quite sweet. So there's a there's a bit of a history of the common theme within you all doing a Christmas video over the last few years and last year. So for 2023 we had a bit of a project team assembled from the various divisions within our division. So we had kind of a wider group that whittled down to kind of a four person project team on it.
00:42:25:02 - 00:42:50:11
Michelle Mc Mahon
And we had this concept of two younger authors write in their letters to Santa Claus and you see what they're writing, and then they come to the US campus to Portillo's support box on campus and, well, why not? So they are coming around and peeking into various classrooms, labs, seeing what's happening and then you see them kind of imagine themselves in place.
00:42:50:11 - 00:43:10:13
Michelle Mc Mahon
So one is looking at a dancer and then she imagines herself being part of that dance in the Irish, the Academy that I mentioned earlier. We have a flight simulator, so one of the girls peeks around the corner, sees that, and then imagines herself as a pilot and has a couple of set ups like that. And the whole kind of messaging around is like really soft in terms of a cell.
00:43:10:19 - 00:43:27:10
Michelle Mc Mahon
It was basically whatever you want to be when you grow up. We're here to help you get there. So it was just, you know, education will help you get to wherever it is you're kind of picturing. And you would think that there was a lot more involved in it in the lead up and a lot more planning than there actually was.
00:43:27:10 - 00:43:47:14
Michelle Mc Mahon
We pulled in favors from absolutely everywhere. The two girls are phenomenal. The locals, the area prior of the state school, they were delighted to be the actors for the couple of days was one of their one of their Real-Life Moms was the the video our student social media officers that we just spoke about world the extras and everyone else you see in that video is genuinely UN staff.
00:43:48:01 - 00:44:05:11
Michelle Mc Mahon
We had two days of filming to get the whole lot done in. I don't know how many different locations across campus. It was all done on campus and the planning for that happened in the one week period beforehand. So it was when I say we pulled in favors from everyone and we got to turn around and it was another local videographer.
00:44:05:12 - 00:44:26:14
Michelle Mc Mahon
Recent graduates of UI law, which was lovely because he was back on campus working on it and he did a wonderful job. It got a huge reaction beyond, you know, but I think the thing that was most notable to our Markham team was the internal response to us. And I think, look, in any workplace, you can have cynicism, you can have, you know, like that just comes as part of the territory.
00:44:26:22 - 00:44:47:23
Michelle Mc Mahon
People absolutely loved it. The comments were so positive, you know, it was just magical that people were so proud of you. And and I think part of that was just, again, because there was no hard sell. It was just we can all so easily put ourselves back in that place where you're five or seven or nine. I knew when I grow up, I want to be like, we can all relate to that.
00:44:48:06 - 00:45:11:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
And just this idea that, you know, at that point in time you genuinely believe you can be anything you want to be. And I think in terms of the response from US staff for all is it was a bit of a love letter to the team, the huge team as well, because, you know, we'll all have tough days at work, but if you're here, it means you're helping people, right, to achieve those goals.
00:45:11:22 - 00:45:20:19
Michelle Mc Mahon
So whatever your role is here, you're part of making that happen, which is really nice and maybe a nice thing to end the year and to reflect on it and take away from.
00:45:21:04 - 00:45:24:09
John Azoni
Yeah, very cool. Was it just one videographer or did you guys have a crew.
00:45:24:20 - 00:45:25:14
Michelle Mc Mahon
Just the one.
00:45:26:08 - 00:45:27:05
Michelle Mc Mahon
That's just the.
00:45:27:05 - 00:45:28:10
John Azoni
One is pretty high end.
00:45:28:16 - 00:45:30:10
Michelle Mc Mahon
Really small production.
00:45:32:02 - 00:45:33:04
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah. Yeah. It was.
00:45:34:00 - 00:45:34:18
Michelle Mc Mahon
My sense.
00:45:35:05 - 00:45:37:21
John Azoni
Yeah. I mean for one person I thought you do a good job on.
00:45:37:21 - 00:45:49:10
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah. Oh you did a phenomenal job that was like say Ollie Phillips recent graduate and he was, he was wonderful and excellent to work with. And also as it happened that you guys had a major crush on him, which was really.
00:45:49:10 - 00:45:51:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
Cute as we right.
00:45:53:16 - 00:46:16:05
John Azoni
This. That's awesome. I love that. Well, my last question is just about measuring success. And so, you know, we talk about success a few different ways in this episode so far. I mean, in the Christmas video, like, the success kind of was more like the internal morale and other times it's maybe a high view count or high amount of comments or or whatever else.
00:46:16:05 - 00:46:19:23
John Azoni
But typically, like, what kind of metrics matter to you? Well.
00:46:20:14 - 00:46:41:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, I mean, again, I wasn't talking specifically to the unit that I'm in, which again, is kind of central marketing unit. So where we're positioned in what you call the funnel lifecycle or, you know, wherever it is, we are at that brand awareness stage. So for us it typically is reach. That's kind of the number one thing is to get as many eyeballs as possible on the content that we're creating.
00:46:41:07 - 00:47:09:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
So that's usually the kind of core metric, I suppose. So when you're looking at that, you're looking at you are looking at your reach, you're looking at your view rates, you're looking at how many completed views or all that kind of stuff. And so it is important when it comes to us to consider how something has performed. But if you know, but for me personally, it's engagement and in particular, any kind of comments that come back, I think, you know, I really spend a lot of time looking at what do people say in response to what's being put out there?
00:47:09:21 - 00:47:33:23
Michelle Mc Mahon
Because if you know the amount of content we all school post every single day, if somebody has bothered to stop and have something to say, whether it's good, bad or indifferent, if they've given it that much of their time and energy, I place a huge value on that. So I think we look a lot at what have people had to say about the content and what in what ways might that change shape, reframe what we do next.
00:47:34:08 - 00:47:46:10
John Azoni
Yeah, the answer might very well be no, because I think this is kind of difficult to do, but has there been any efforts or any success in connecting video content marketing results to like enrollment results.
00:47:47:01 - 00:48:12:14
Michelle Mc Mahon
As it stands, not really. And again, I think this is part of that decentralized model without that change management that I mentioned earlier on. So we do have a team marketers across the university in various pockets who have chosen to, you know, Avengers, assemble it all and come together in this kind of, you know, like structured by our sons way to try and point from one part of the funnel to the next.
00:48:12:16 - 00:48:37:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
But see for example, what will happen with degrees is that we will have these videos this long form and here are one. We will then give the assets to the graduate marketing specific unit and they will use sections of that video as well with more kind of call to action framing. So they will use a clip of Allison or Joseph and there would be a prompt within their version of the ad to download the prospectus.
00:48:37:21 - 00:48:49:01
Michelle Mc Mahon
So there is threads that we can follow, but it doesn't come usually directly from the central hero video or the persona videos, but sort of in a roundabout way later on that that comes back in.
00:48:49:07 - 00:49:04:12
John Azoni
Yeah, it's tough because, you know, people don't just it's not like people like watch top of funnel video. Then they're like, All right, I'm going to go watch a mid funnel video then. All right. I'm to watch bottom of funnel. Okay. Now I'm going to apply. It just is never like that, you know, just through.
00:49:04:12 - 00:49:09:04
Michelle Mc Mahon
Videos. And now I'm going to pay for my masters, right?
00:49:09:04 - 00:49:30:02
John Azoni
You know, I'm always amazed that like just clients that I work with, they've hovered around my content for sometimes years before. Yes, before. And so like to quantify what post, you know, of mine or what podcast episode really did it for them. It would be difficult just a slow, slow build. And I think that that's probably very much the case.
00:49:30:08 - 00:49:50:01
John Azoni
You know, if you're marketing to high school students, you know, kind of trying to follow them through that whole cycle, there's an unlimited amount of pieces of kind of variables, I guess like, I guess the only way to find that out would be like to act to like, ask in the application or something. That's usually beyond my the scope of my, my knowledge of the enrollment process.
00:49:50:01 - 00:49:54:08
John Azoni
But it's a tough code to crack. You know how it is.
00:49:54:08 - 00:50:08:03
Michelle Mc Mahon
And it's one of those things I think you mentioned earlier on about when you get asked about return on investment, it's, you know, you can be by people who again, it may not be there regularly and so you can be put on the spot. But yeah but you know how many bombs on seats did we get for the money we spent on those videos?
00:50:08:03 - 00:50:32:07
Michelle Mc Mahon
And again, I think this whole education for people who aren't in that space is really important and kind of acknowledging that everybody is an expert somewhere. And exactly to your point, you know, I might look at 20 of Avengers different videos, I might look at 50, I might look at one this year, love it. You won't know that I don't have the budget for it this year and I'll come back next year based on that video, unless we have that explicit conversation.
00:50:32:07 - 00:51:07:14
Michelle Mc Mahon
So it really is. There's so many variables in that decision making process. We do try and collect feedback on the campaign, so we will try and do that. You know, that happens to service. There's awareness, there's a bit of work happening on how we make that a project for next year, but it's a tough nut to crack. And I think again, setting out your style at the start to say this isn't going to say we made this video for this much money and it led to this many people that the job here is a little bit different and explaining what it is you are doing and kind of managing those expectations early on, I think
00:51:07:14 - 00:51:24:23
Michelle Mc Mahon
can kind of save you maybe from some of the more difficult to answer questions at the end just because you don't have all of that information and you can't nobody nobody knows. The thought process is nobody can see the full line or or how many things happened in the meantime. Or maybe you just opted for the other university because your friend went there and you wanted to live together.
00:51:25:00 - 00:51:34:21
Michelle Mc Mahon
But there's just so much that is is variable from student to student. And I think you try and cast as wide net as possible with the best content possible and hope for the best.
00:51:35:08 - 00:51:35:15
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah.
00:51:35:22 - 00:52:00:05
John Azoni
And I think it comes down to like, you know, no one would argue that communicating about the value of your institution is helpful, you know, whether you have a college rep going to a high school to communicate that value, whether it's an article or a landing page that's full of text, that's communicating the value or whether it's video, it's just about like, how do you remix that content or creates platform specific content.
00:52:00:08 - 00:52:33:19
John Azoni
It's just another act of going to where your audience is, you know? So it's like it's like either you do that or you don't. But, you know, either either you're going to say that there's value in talking about our school, and so we're going to invest in this way of talking about it, you know, through video. And we know that, you know, the world is just very video centric or we're going to ignore that data and then we're going to just create like giant blocks of text on our website and very confusing websites that are hard to navigate and yeah, so.
00:52:34:19 - 00:52:37:20
John Azoni
Well, cool. This has been awesome. So where can people connect with yet.
00:52:38:10 - 00:53:00:10
Michelle Mc Mahon
Yeah, even when they're on LinkedIn. So some I'm like man, I really appreciated your attempt at the very Irish pronunciation of that earlier on. Happy to connect there. I was still on for the moment. I will see how that would work best. Yeah, and yeah, the University University of Limerick marketing team would be delighted to meet some new people in the industry to connect with.
00:53:00:10 - 00:53:02:18
Michelle Mc Mahon
So absolutely, we just.
00:53:02:18 - 00:53:08:18
John Azoni
Awesome. Well, go connect with Michelle on LinkedIn and X for the next a little bit here.
00:53:10:13 - 00:53:10:23
Michelle Mc Mahon
Quickly.
00:53:11:18 - 00:53:15:02
John Azoni
Before she moves to blue sky blue skies, the new the new hotness.
00:53:15:02 - 00:53:17:09
Michelle Mc Mahon
I guess I've been.
00:53:17:09 - 00:53:21:16
John Azoni
But yeah, Michelle, thanks for coming on. That shows great conversation. Looking forward to this episode coming out.
00:53:22:04 - 00:53:23:00
Michelle Mc Mahon
Thank you so much.
