#109 - "May 1st Is Halftime, Not the Finish Line": A Yield and Melt Survival Guide
With Rita Winthrop
Join the newsletter 👇
📫 Get insights and inspiration on higher ed content creation and strategy every Wednesday morning.
SHOW NOTES
If your school just came off a yield season that didn't go the way you hoped — or if you're staring down summer melt and wondering what to actually do about it — this episode is for you.
Rita Winthrop is a marketing consultant with 15 years in higher ed and edtech who helps institutions and brands build content that actually moves people. She runs Rita Winthrop Consulting out of Newport, Rhode Island, specializing in enrollment email campaigns, LinkedIn ghostwriting for higher ed executives, and content strategy that doesn't just fill a calendar. She also has a lot of feelings about yield season — which is exactly why I wanted to get her on the show.
Rita has a rare background: she was both an admissions counselor and the person writing the MarCom for her team at the same time. That dual perspective shapes everything she talks about in this episode — why the disconnect between admissions and MarCom is so damaging, what actually moves students from accepted to enrolled, and why May 1st is halftime, not the finish line.
In this episode:
Why the personalized experience students get with their admissions counselor so often evaporates the moment they deposit — and what a good handoff actually looks like
What bad yield communication strategy looks like in practice: too much volume, too many CTAs, and content that forgets it's talking to a 17-year-old making the biggest financial decision of their life
Why parent communications deserve their own dedicated strategy with its own tone, cadence, and content — and why most schools treat parents as an afterthought
What you can still do right now if you didn't make your class — including how to re-engage fence sitters without looking desperate
Why silence is the biggest driver of summer melt, and what a smart anti-melt campaign looks like from May through August
Transfer students as an underutilized population — why they should be a year-round conversation, not a backup plan
What EdTech vendors consistently get wrong about the people they're selling to (and why cold emailing admissions counselors in April will get you yelled at)
Resources mentioned:
Mailed It! by Day Kibilds and Ashley Budd:https://emailbook.co/
Connect with Rita:
Website: https://ritawinthrop.com
Connect with John:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnazoni
Website: https://unveild.tv
Newsletter: https://unveild.tv/newsletter
-
(Done with AI so only about 95% accurate)
00;00;00;09 - 00;00;24;28
John Azoni
Well, folks, it's May, May summer. As they say, I hope all the parents out there are hanging in there with buying tie dyed t shirt for your kids for Spirit Week beach day. Bring up beach towel school and a sunglasses and a beach ball, whatever else. By the time this comes out, it will be almost June. And if your school has just come off, you know, yield season, that didn't go the way you hoped.
00;00;25;06 - 00;00;47;10
John Azoni
Or if you're staring down summer melt season and wondering what to actually do about it. This episode is for you. My guest today is Rita Winthrop, a marketing consultant with 15 years in higher Ed and Ed Tech, who helps institutions and brands build content that actually moves people. She runs Rita Winthrop Consulting out of Newport, Rhode Island, specializing in enrollment email campaigns.
00;00;47;14 - 00;01;10;15
John Azoni
LinkedIn Ghostwriting for higher ed executives and content strategy that doesn't just fill a calendar. She also has a lot of feelings about yield season, which is exactly why I wanted to get her on the show. Rita has a rare background. She was both an admissions counselor and the person writing the marketing for her team at the same time, which means her opinions come from actually being in the room and not just advising from the outside.
00;01;10;25 - 00;01;30;04
John Azoni
We get into I May 1st is halftime, not the finish line. What a bad yield comms strategy actually looks like in practice. While your parent communications deserve their own dedicated strategy and what you can still do right now if you didn't make your class. We also talk about transfer students as an underutilized population. It's a really fun conversation.
00;01;30;05 - 00;01;40;05
John Azoni
She's got super great energy and I think you're going to walk away with some stuff you can actually use. So let's get into it. All right. So, Rita, welcome to the show. Thanks for being here.
00;01;40;22 - 00;01;42;21
Rita Winthrop
Hi. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here.
00;01;43;12 - 00;01;58;26
John Azoni
We were just talking before we started recording about all kinds of things and had a fun conversation about our kids. And I seen a lot of your stuff on LinkedIn, and I've always been thinking like, I should get her on the podcast cause, like, I don't even know what we would talk about, but I know it would be fun.
00;01;59;05 - 00;02;04;23
Rita Winthrop
But I mean, I usually have the ability to run my mouth about something. Yes.
00;02;05;20 - 00;02;10;17
John Azoni
So. So I'm excited. Even if this episode totally tanks. I've already had fun, so.
00;02;10;24 - 00;02;18;01
Rita Winthrop
Me too. And we, as we just said, have plenty of blackmail for our children when they turn 30 years old. So we'll be all good.
00;02;18;10 - 00;02;27;22
John Azoni
All right. So aside from potty training, which is what we were talking about, what's something you've been nerding out about lately? Higher ed related or not?
00;02;28;10 - 00;02;57;12
Rita Winthrop
So I've been thinking about this question, obviously, since we first talked about it a couple of weeks ago, and it kind of actually falls very much in line with parenting. You know, what I've really been loving doing is going and getting ice cream without my children, which maybe seems a little bit feral, but they are feral. And over the weekend, my husband and I had a very rare date night where we went out and got a treat without them.
00;02;57;12 - 00;03;03;02
Rita Winthrop
And it was really nice to sit there and think if they showed up right now, they would murder.
00;03;03;02 - 00;03;04;04
John Azoni
Us. So mad.
00;03;04;25 - 00;03;17;29
Rita Winthrop
So mad. So we've been making a habit of doing more things that they would like, but without us, which I don't know what that says about me as a parent, but I do like an ice cream cone without being interrupted.
00;03;17;29 - 00;03;22;09
John Azoni
So I like that. Yes. Do things that they would like without them.
00;03;22;26 - 00;03;28;20
Rita Winthrop
But I mean, sometimes you have to. We're kids, too. A little bit, right? Everyone likes an ice cream cone.
00;03;29;00 - 00;03;53;20
John Azoni
Yeah, well, before I had biological kids, we had two foster kids, a brother and a sister. And for whatever reason, we didn't want to give them ice cream because I think it would have kept them up. We were on a road trip with them and could have just been preference. I don't remember. But I do remember stopping at the ice cream place and we put a sheet up like between the driver's seat and the back passenger seat so me and Laurie could just eat ice cream.
00;03;55;11 - 00;04;13;01
Rita Winthrop
Over in my husband literally took his leftover ice cream because of course, he got one that was like this big. And we went out and he brought the rest home and he and I were like sneakily eating in our back mudroom while the kids were like playing in our living room because it's not for them. Yeah, they can do it.
00;04;13;05 - 00;04;15;18
Rita Winthrop
They could do it someday. It's ours. We bought it.
00;04;16;13 - 00;04;38;14
John Azoni
I, I realize I probably sound like one of the bad foster parents. You know, That's like, I swear, we showered these kids with love. We did all kinds of stuff. But, you know, sometimes the adults can tolerate sugar in a way that the kids can't. And we had just been on a weeklong vacation with them, and we were like our wits.
00;04;38;14 - 00;04;39;28
John Azoni
And we're like, we need a treat.
00;04;40;15 - 00;04;48;28
Rita Winthrop
I listen, I'm here for it. I don't disagree with you at all. So there's that. Oh, that's so funny. I love that.
00;04;49;13 - 00;05;15;09
John Azoni
So you have a rare background. You were both in admissions counselor and running marketing for your team at the same time. Tell me about that role. How did that shape, you know, the way you think about you'll I should back up and say this episode is we're talking about you know, yield we crossed the, you know, the finish line sort of for yield and people are looking back on their accomplishments or lack thereof and looking forward to Melton what they're going to do and stuff.
00;05;15;09 - 00;05;21;06
John Azoni
So we're kind of sitting in this balance of like between yield and melt. And so you have some experience there. So now tell me about your background.
00;05;21;07 - 00;05;52;27
Rita Winthrop
A little bit. A little bit. I like to say that I'm kind of an anomaly in some regards in the higher ed marketing space because I had a marketing background but also the admissions background. So I think in a lot of ways it gave me a little bit of an unfair advantage when I was working in admissions. I think there's often a big disconnect between the messages that, you know, communications are going out like from the university in general and also this like hyper personalized experience that admissions counselors give students.
00;05;53;06 - 00;06;11;26
Rita Winthrop
So when the two of those don't match, it's often where I think there's issues which we're going to obviously talk about a little bit today. But for myself, I knew what how to do that because I was the admissions counselor. I was talking with those students. And then on the flip, I was writing the like bigger mass emails that were also coming out.
00;06;11;27 - 00;06;24;17
Rita Winthrop
So I was able to kind of keep that like personalized experience going through the one on one that they got with me, but then also through the department emails too, which doesn't always happen.
00;06;24;17 - 00;06;42;26
John Azoni
So yeah, and you've talked about how, you know, the student can have a great relationship with their counselor. They can kind of, you know, feel seen and recruited and then they deposit and then the comms just kind of go flat. So like, did you see that happening? Why do you think that happens? Why is that hard to fix?
00;06;43;18 - 00;07;04;04
Rita Winthrop
I think a lot of enrollment teams look at I mean, you just said it to a lot of enrollment teams. Look at me first as a finish line. I think it's halftime because enrollments not done until you get students physically in the seats and on campus on end of August or early September, kind of depending on what your institution looks like.
00;07;04;04 - 00;07;31;19
Rita Winthrop
And you've had this hyper personalized experience the entire way through, especially at like smaller institutions or even bigger ones too. They're assigned to a person, They are working with that person one on one. And then May 1st comes and all the comms stop. There's often a big gap between the communications between enrollment and whoever else is taking them next, whether it's a student services office, student affairs, a parent, family programs, office.
00;07;31;19 - 00;07;55;05
Rita Winthrop
I mean, every department is different at every institution. But I think it's a mindset shift because someone has to own them in that summertime. There has to be a really clear handoff between admissions and then whoever else. And if they felt seen through the whole admissions cycle and then don't hear anything through the summer, that kind of connectedness disappears.
00;07;56;00 - 00;08;15;24
John Azoni
Yeah, I remember that. You know, my experience in college, I had a rep that came to my school and like, developed a relationship for me and my parents and stuff like that. And I felt very seen and all that stuff. And then I do kind of remember that like there was a drop off at some point where like the responsibilities for communications went to a different department and then.
00;08;15;24 - 00;08;16;05
Rita Winthrop
Right.
00;08;16;10 - 00;08;20;15
John Azoni
And it kind of felt like what I imagine, like I watched a lot of love is blind and like.
00;08;20;27 - 00;08;21;17
Rita Winthrop
Ready to.
00;08;21;18 - 00;08;41;10
John Azoni
Reality TV and stuff like that. Yeah, but I watched it a lot for like the reels and stuff afterwards and like, yeah, we'll say about the experience and what I see a lot is like people saying like the producers of the show are like your best friend while you're on the show, and then as soon as you're off the show like you mean nothing to them anymore, you're worthless and they don't want to.
00;08;41;10 - 00;08;42;09
John Azoni
They literally.
00;08;42;09 - 00;09;03;17
Rita Winthrop
So they don't talk to you ever again. Yeah. When I think, like we experienced that as consumers all over the place, right? Like you are going to buy a car and people are obsessed with you and they, like, compliment your outfit and you're like, the coolest thing that's ever existed. And then the second that you sign that off, see which.
00;09;03;17 - 00;09;34;05
Rita Winthrop
Cool. Yeah, I get it. It's a business, but I think a lot of times in education we forget that it is a business and we're selling a service. But there's also the like warm and fuzzy eyes that come with education that like you kind of got to carry that through all the way to move in until they start making their new community within their peers and their professors and advisors and all of that stuff that like that three month period of time is a really big window where it could be a huge gap if it's not done, done well or done at all.
00;09;34;22 - 00;09;43;23
John Azoni
So how would you suggest operationalizing that? Like, you know, if the communications do change hands, what should carryover? How should that carry over?
00;09;44;08 - 00;10;13;20
Rita Winthrop
I think it needs to be a really direct conversation between admissions. And let's just say if student services, there needs to be a person, a name, someone really specific that they're handing off to a series of emails that are built out before me first, they need to be like, ready to go come May of things for students to look forward to orientation, move in, filling out their housing form, maybe a cool event that they can attend.
00;10;13;27 - 00;10;33;14
Rita Winthrop
If there is any type of like social platforms that you're encouraging them to be a part of, you know, doing that sooner than later. And here's how you could have easily an email every other week from May 1st to move in of just like fun stuff for them to look forward to. And it kind of takes away that silence.
00;10;33;28 - 00;10;56;01
Rita Winthrop
But also then in that each fun thing, like there's someone that they could connect to on campus if they have a specific question, like not just registrar at university Edu or whatever it is, like who is the person that is? There is a body that is in charge of that now, Does the email necessarily have to go directly to that person?
00;10;56;01 - 00;11;12;18
Rita Winthrop
No, because we all know as marketing, you can set that up in your CRM or however you want to have it going out that it could just be like filtered to the general inbox. But at least it appears like it's coming from a real person. And a real person is on the other end who will help to answer those questions.
00;11;13;13 - 00;11;28;06
John Azoni
Yeah, that's huge for me when it comes to like customer service, it's like, I want to know that there's just a person that I can just ask a quick question to or whatever, right? You know, I hate as much as anyone else a phone tree, you know.
00;11;28;15 - 00;11;36;19
Rita Winthrop
That's gross. So gross. Like, no, absolutely not. Like just I want to talk to somebody. I press zero every time. 000. Oh, yeah. Get me to a real person.
00;11;37;00 - 00;11;43;16
John Azoni
You know, you got to call the pharmacy and then you just hit zero. Like, until. Until they're like, Okay, fine. I'll connect you to a pharmacist.
00;11;43;17 - 00;11;54;28
Rita Winthrop
Right? Exactly. Exactly. They're like the ones where you don't know what category you fall into. Zero. Yeah. You listen to the options like four times before. You kind of just figure out which one to press.
00;11;54;28 - 00;12;05;11
John Azoni
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what is bad yield communication strategy look like in practice in terms of like volume and tone and timing and content?
00;12;05;23 - 00;12;32;00
Rita Winthrop
A few things. I think a lot of folks think that volume equals strategy and it doesn't just because you send out an obscene amount of emails doesn't actually mean that you're doing anything productive with them again, like how many times I've seen with clients, they send out a new email and it's got ten different links to CTA buttons in it.
00;12;32;14 - 00;12;54;15
Rita Winthrop
What are you asking them to actually do? Who is the group that you are getting in touch with? And if it is a student, one thing, okay, their attention span is less than ours. It might even be less than our, you know, four and six year olds. Right. But they need to be given a very clear direction of if you want them to fill out the housing form, this is it.
00;12;54;24 - 00;13;16;02
Rita Winthrop
That's it. Anything else that's like cool or fun or a link, embed the video or embed a photo in the actual email if you have the capacity to do that. And I think a lot of times to for grown ups and we forget that we're writing to an audience that is 17 And so like the language needs to be tight.
00;13;16;02 - 00;13;35;25
Rita Winthrop
It needs to be punchy. You know, if you're developing like a parent column flow, the language is going to be different. I think we need to think about who we're talking to and not just like, well, they need to know this information. Of course they do. But there is a way to kind of develop that in a way that makes more sense.
00;13;35;25 - 00;13;57;07
Rita Winthrop
And also playing into the fact that this especially four year olds, it's a huge step. That's probably the biggest thing that this student has ever done at any point in their life. Going off to college. They've made this huge financial decision in some regards to the biggest financial decision, people make in their entire life other than buying a house.
00;13;57;14 - 00;14;19;00
Rita Winthrop
Yeah, play into that a little bit. Like make sure the support systems are there. We're here to help you through this. We know it's new for you. And so if you're not doing those things, that's where your melt might be worse. You may have students drop off or even just if you're not making your class, you know, like that could have been a big component of that.
00;14;19;09 - 00;14;51;09
John Azoni
Yeah, I imagine that. And I'm very limited in my knowledge of, you know, admissions and all that stuff. I imagine that when you're in that every day you forget that the people that you're talking to have most likely never been to college before. Mm. And they don't automatically know what you're talking about. And I remember when my wife and I were planning our wedding, it was like that with all these vendors where it's like, Hmm, she's like, and we had a really short engagement, so she like, went to the dress place and was like, okay, you know, a wedding six months out.
00;14;51;09 - 00;15;00;02
John Azoni
And they're like, oh, like first of all, like, I'm just like, you know how long this stuff takes? Like, you know, I've never been married before.
00;15;00;14 - 00;15;02;18
Rita Winthrop
God forbid that. Like, you offended them.
00;15;02;20 - 00;15;03;02
John Azoni
Yeah.
00;15;03;11 - 00;15;24;11
Rita Winthrop
With that question. No, it's so true. And I think like, especially I think about first gen students, you know, like they've never even had a parent or caregiver that has been through the experience either. And I think it happens a lot. Again, back to like you as a consumer. It happens. It happened to you with your wedding. It happens when you're, again, buying a car.
00;15;24;11 - 00;15;39;07
Rita Winthrop
It could be your first time doing something. But for the person who's on the other side of it, they do that every single day. So I think we have to like really I mean, I hate to say dumb it down, but you do have to dumb it down a lot because it's their first time. So directions need to be, like, incredibly clear.
00;15;39;17 - 00;16;02;19
John Azoni
Mm hmm. Yeah. So most of our video work is with graduate students, which is actually a great advantage because they're they've been in the professional world a lot and they're very responsive and excited and stuff like that once in a while. Currently right now, trying to plan a shoot with an undergrad student is a different it's a whole different ballgame.
00;16;02;19 - 00;16;21;11
John Azoni
Yeah, it's just to get a response is, yeah, it's a win. You know, I can't imagine sending an email to this person that has more than one thing that I'm asking her to do. And you know, I'm sure she's very smart and all this stuff and nothing, right? It's just a generational thing where it's like.
00;16;21;11 - 00;16;21;24
Rita Winthrop
It is.
00;16;21;26 - 00;16;35;00
John Azoni
They're just all over the place. And so like, have you read I'm sure you've read mailed it. Yeah. Yeah. They and Ashley's book. I suggest that book. I mean, I'm like the unofficial sponsor of this book. I love that.
00;16;35;00 - 00;16;36;17
Rita Winthrop
I'm sure they'll appreciate that.
00;16;36;19 - 00;17;02;16
John Azoni
They've been on the podcast twice, and I had mentioned it a number of times because I just feel like it's such a basic thing. We think like, okay, sending emails, it's not that hard. It actually is a very like it is. You have to engineer these communications in a very specific way to get people to do something, and the result of them not doing something could mean like so much money, you know.
00;17;03;04 - 00;17;25;04
Rita Winthrop
So much money. Well, that's I mean, I think those are real like indicators of where a student is to especially like thinking about that summer time period is like if they haven't filled out their housing form, that's a red flag. They should be excited to fill out their housing form. Now, granted, are they 17 and they're on their phones all the time and not checking their emails?
00;17;25;04 - 00;17;45;18
Rita Winthrop
Yes. Do they probably have 3700 emails in there that are unopened also? Yes. But that's, you know, where the communication needs to be. Maybe it's a text, maybe it's a phone call, maybe it's a email. Maybe there's your accepted student hub that exists on the web somewhere. I mean, this it's like, you know, trying to herd cats a little bit.
00;17;45;18 - 00;17;53;14
Rita Winthrop
Sometimes you have to, like, find different methods to to kind of lock them in and be, like I said, exceptionally clear about what you want them to do.
00;17;53;24 - 00;18;12;18
John Azoni
Yeah, well, I want to skip ahead a little bit, so make the case for parent Communications having its own dedicated strategy during yield. Because what you just said, you know, they've got all these emails, they're not checking them. You know, I haven't gotten to that point. My oldest just turned 11. So we're we're not super far. It's got a little time.
00;18;12;18 - 00;18;37;20
John Azoni
But I have listened to some podcasts that have been really eye opening. There is one I can't remember who the guest was on the application podcast with Alison Herschel, where she's an admissions like enrollment VP or something, and then her son went to school and it was like just listening to her perspective of like all of a sudden that all changed for her when she saw like how few communications her son was actually opening and how important the parent was in those communications.
00;18;38;00 - 00;18;41;03
John Azoni
Anyways, I'm really interested in that topic, but tell me what you think about that.
00;18;41;19 - 00;19;06;08
Rita Winthrop
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a hugely underutilized group that is not getting communications now. Is it a little more complicated to get some of their email addresses and contact information? Sure. Can you build out your inquiry forms for your students to have them input that information in there? Yes. So you can start building this database of, you know, parent and caregiver contacts.
00;19;06;18 - 00;19;27;19
Rita Winthrop
They're often going to be maybe the deciding factor or the one of the biggest components of that deciding factor. And they are also often the biggest afterthought. Schools treat them like an afterthought because they're so focused on we got to get the students to commit, but also who's helping sign the loan paperwork, like who's going to be helping walk through?
00;19;27;29 - 00;19;55;11
Rita Winthrop
And they may have a student who's, like hyped and they're like, Cool, I saw my group, it's got my major, I'm excited. Meanwhile, mom and dad over here have 17 unresolved questions about safety and career outcomes and ROI, and where is the closest hospital and where does my kid get groceries? And those are the types of things that again can be so helpful either through the admissions process or through yields season.
00;19;55;11 - 00;20;15;15
Rita Winthrop
And also then in time, they should have their own cadence with their own tone and their own content. That kind of parallels the student experience. So if you're asking your student to do the housing form, mom should also be getting an email maybe within a day or two of that to be like, By the way, Jimmy over here got his his emailed housing for him.
00;20;15;15 - 00;20;33;23
Rita Winthrop
He needs to fill it out by X date. Here's a little bit more about campus safety and what that looks like in and around the dorms or the residence halls and kind of just tic tac toe all the way down because they need to hear it in a different way than a 17, 18 year old. And they want the facts, They want their reassurance.
00;20;33;23 - 00;20;49;29
Rita Winthrop
They want to feel like they're handing their beautiful baby off to somebody who's got their back and that they also will have a contact office, department person, whoever, that if they have questions, they can also feel like they're being genuinely cared about to that smart.
00;20;49;29 - 00;21;08;17
John Azoni
And you know, I love that like that sort of AB approach to concepts like here's the information also piece, you know, here's some additional content you didn't ask for but you're probably wondering about and this is where I think schools like I've seen a lot of email comms flows, so few of them have any videos at all in there.
00;21;08;17 - 00;21;10;12
Rita Winthrop
They really do sad.
00;21;11;04 - 00;21;36;02
John Azoni
And I'm like, this is such a easy thing, especially like so many schools are active on Instagram. You can go and just link to the video that shows a little campus vibe or something like that, or that shows talks about campus safety or shows someone doing a dorm room tour or something like that. I mean, just just little things like always kind of pointing them back to where they can continue to engage, you know, with the college.
00;21;36;02 - 00;21;47;12
John Azoni
And, you know, this stuff doesn't have to be hard. I really wish there were more of that type of content in emails because I just think it would pump up the communication so much more and create such more of a sense of security.
00;21;47;12 - 00;22;08;20
Rita Winthrop
Yeah, for sure. And I think like a lot of schools, you know, obviously it's a lot of bandwidth and budget issues, but some of the best schools I've seen have on Vimeo or YouTube, they have like a 32nd clip about safety on campus, a 32nd clip about the dining hall, and they use them purely for those types of communications.
00;22;08;20 - 00;22;26;18
Rita Winthrop
They're not necessarily like the jazzy est fanciest of videos, but if there's bandwidth to have those, you can insert them in so many different emails and they can be evergreen, they can live there forever. I have one client that I use them all the time. We just grab whatever video is relevant to that email and embedded if you can.
00;22;26;18 - 00;22;37;23
Rita Winthrop
If you don't have the capacity for that. Like you said, just link it out. But it just we like short form content too, even though we're, you know, in our thirties, but almost.
00;22;38;13 - 00;22;38;24
John Azoni
Almost.
00;22;38;24 - 00;22;43;06
Rita Winthrop
40. So don't tell anybody. But, you know, I feel like.
00;22;43;19 - 00;22;47;27
John Azoni
I'm glad you think I like that. I'm glad you think we're well, you know, listen, you know.
00;22;48;10 - 00;23;09;04
Rita Winthrop
Right, that as long as I can live. But, you know, I think there's like there's a real missed opportunity there. Your scrolling on your Instagram or your Tik Tok or whatever to. Yeah, put it in the email. Let's make it quick so people can see it and then they feel it feels a little more fun and punchy than, you know, some lame email you got from the grocery store.
00;23;09;13 - 00;23;28;09
John Azoni
Yeah, And I'm the type of person where I will choose like a business or an experience based on like, can I sort out what I need to sort out or like any unanswered questions before I go in there? Like if it's like a complicated thing, you know, like if I was going into college and you mentioned the dining hall, I would want to see how does that work?
00;23;28;09 - 00;23;49;09
John Azoni
Because that experience sounds so intimidating to me. I remember being like going to high school and being super afraid to like, not bring my lunch one day and have to go through the the the anxiety. It's like, Yeah, I'm going to do this right. Like, you know, how does this work? And I think so many of those things that can just normalize, we might not think about them as adults.
00;23;49;13 - 00;23;59;08
John Azoni
We might just be like, Oh, we got this cool dining hall, look at all this. But what a student might at least what I would want to be knowing is like, how do I not look stupid in this dining hall? Right, Right.
00;23;59;18 - 00;24;28;13
Rita Winthrop
I mean, I think that's where and especially like being mindful of mental health, too, right? Like I have anxiety. Cool. Most people have anxiety. And so were you like, shaking with your tray like while walking into the dining hall? Like where is the soup and where like, sit like this panic. Everyone has that. And I think if we just kind of acknowledge that from the jump and portray that in the comments that go out, whether it's a video, a picture or like a step through, it might sound like a silly calm to do.
00;24;28;13 - 00;24;40;11
Rita Winthrop
But you're case in point, right? We're all freaking out about it a little bit. So like, let's just be honest and upfront about it and it will make it feel more intentional to the viewer at that at the back end.
00;24;40;21 - 00;24;59;14
John Azoni
Yeah, I was taken back to all those points in my life where I was so freaked out about going to the next major land thing. My daughter, she did hurt. School ended yesterday and they did a fifth grade clap out. So all the parents came and the kids paraded through, you know, and everyone clapped and it was great.
00;24;59;25 - 00;25;18;26
John Azoni
And we met up with her after and we're like, Ellie, what's wrong? Like, she just seemed really distracted. And it turned out she was just like, I'm not excited about leaving fifth grade. I'm nervous about freaked out. She's like, I'm going to go to a new building and this is not exciting for me. Yeah. And so we had this whole talk on the way home.
00;25;19;01 - 00;25;30;06
John Azoni
Like, I mean, I remember going in the middle school and I just pestered my sister with so many questions. She's two years older to where she would be like, Shut up. Like, it's you'll figure it out. Like you'll be.
00;25;30;06 - 00;25;30;26
Rita Winthrop
Fine.
00;25;32;02 - 00;25;49;29
John Azoni
And then high school. And I remember waking up my parents dropping me off at college and just knots in my stomach, like, you know. And so much of that can be alleviated by like, I mean, I'm thinking like, why don't we do a video for the middle schoolers of like, here's how you switch classes. You know, here's what that.
00;25;49;29 - 00;25;50;18
Rita Winthrop
Literally.
00;25;50;24 - 00;25;56;25
John Azoni
Here's how you get from your locker to the gym or something like that. You know like so it just I.
00;25;56;25 - 00;26;13;16
Rita Winthrop
Think that's where that was like day in the Life videos. I feel like I can do so much in so many different ways. You know, you follow some students got their phone and they're just walking around campus like, oh, I'm going to the dining hall. This is what I'm getting for lunch today. And then I've got class with so and so just to see what it actually looks like.
00;26;13;16 - 00;26;36;17
Rita Winthrop
Because even though campus tours, we all know campus visits are like so pertinent in the admissions process to make sure it feels good and all that, that is a polished for the most part experience. That's not what you're going to have on the day to day. Like you're not going to be walking like from the admissions building over to the dining hall and looking at some like perfectly made up example dorm room.
00;26;37;00 - 00;26;53;06
Rita Winthrop
You know that like some professors that are like, Hi, so nice to see you. Like, that's not that's not real. That's not real life. I mean, I would hope that most people would be excited to see new students, but you just never know what you're going to get. And so if you have those like Day in the Life, I love those.
00;26;53;06 - 00;27;11;17
Rita Winthrop
I think those are great. I think the like user generated content from a student perspective is awesome. I think those are always really, really great too. Or like students reaching out to prospective students to talk to them via text, via phone call via email. Yeah, those I think are awesome too.
00;27;11;26 - 00;27;13;01
John Azoni
Yeah. All that's great.
00;27;13;13 - 00;27;13;23
Rita Winthrop
Yeah.
00;27;14;04 - 00;27;20;26
John Azoni
Okay. So it's post May 1st and a school didn't make their class. So what can they actually do right now?
00;27;21;06 - 00;27;43;25
Rita Winthrop
Don't panic publicly. Keep it to yourself. I think people can often sense that desperation is like all of a sudden everyone who ever applied is all of a sudden getting like, We're going to give you $20,000 to come to our school. And it's May 2nd like, let's calm down a second. And I think focusing on those fence sitters.
00;27;43;25 - 00;28;10;22
Rita Winthrop
So like, who are those kids that were super engaged through the process but then maybe kind of ghosted towards the end, having phone calls, having texts, thoughtful emails, not mass ones like one on one, ones that are which like. Yes, can be a time issue sometimes. But, you know, if you're really trying to get a couple more students in there to be like where you end up, I'm just curious, you know, like don't necessarily make it like there's still time to come here.
00;28;11;03 - 00;28;31;26
Rita Winthrop
Maybe just I was thinking about you. I want to know. I hope you made your decision. How are things going? I think that often can make students feel like if they were really engaged and didn't, maybe they didn't pick the right one, then that's opening up the door to that kind of a conversation and having those open conversations about like, what's holding you back from here?
00;28;31;26 - 00;28;50;13
Rita Winthrop
Like, was there something here that didn't sit well? I think a lot of times we focus on selling like how to sell great something is, but we don't ask the question of like, well, what wasn't good? Mm hmm. Because that's often where we can work, do some good work. And of course, waitlist start going through those and being mindful about summer melt.
00;28;50;13 - 00;29;10;00
Rita Winthrop
I think, you know, we talked about it a little bit earlier of having some type of a process in place. You can still start now. It's May 19th, you can still start a summer melt campaign where you're emailing families, emailing students or outreach in general to make sure that the current ones who are enrolled are actually going to show up.
00;29;10;00 - 00;29;10;21
Rita Winthrop
Come move in.
00;29;10;29 - 00;29;18;13
John Azoni
MM Yeah. So what is the smart anti melt campaign look like between May and August or did their previous answer answer that question.
00;29;18;15 - 00;29;43;24
Rita Winthrop
I mean I think we talked about it a little bit. I think like not being silent. That tends to be like the biggest red flag I see is when enrollments like, cool, it's May 2nd, we're done. Like you're not. That's where that's like that half time kind of concept I think comes in and giving those not just forms and deadlines, but like fun stuff to look forward to.
00;29;43;24 - 00;30;09;15
Rita Winthrop
Personal notes, you know, like I would just send texts through the summer to some of my, like, students who are maybe a little uneasy, like the ones who are like, Yes, we're coming. You're a little less worried about those. But the ones who maybe didn't deposit until April 30th at almost midnight. Yeah. So to just make every single week feel like they made the right call, it's the silence that's that killer.
00;30;09;18 - 00;30;29;18
Rita Winthrop
I mean, we feel it on the other end when like a student ghosts you, right? So, like, if you flip it, if they feel like we just ghosted them out of nowhere and they're not getting anything cool or like a countdown or first week, we're going to have this big party on the lawn or whatever it is, make it feel like it was a right choice for them the whole way through.
00;30;30;00 - 00;30;40;07
John Azoni
Yeah. When we did our pre call, you were talking about transfer students as kind of a population four as like a lever that you can pull. Yeah. Talk about your what's your point of view on transfer students.
00;30;40;13 - 00;31;00;13
Rita Winthrop
I love transfer students. I feel like they're also a super underutilized group of students. I think we have to be so mindful of the market and the, you know, financial situation of a lot of folks in the country right now and the cost of college and the enrollment cliff and I mean all the things that we all hear about and talk about in this industry.
00;31;00;26 - 00;31;20;29
Rita Winthrop
And I think so many more students are opting for like a community college route or they're staying closer to home for a year or two before they go further away or to pursue a four year or also like they're 17. They don't necessarily know what they want to do yet. I'm not 40, but almost 40. Who knows what I'll do in the next ten years?
00;31;21;05 - 00;31;47;15
Rita Winthrop
Like people can change their mind. And I think it's crazy to think that a 17 year old knows exactly what they want to do forever. I think with my time working with transfer students, I was hustling it all summer mostly. I mean, obviously for a second semester too. But they also have very different fears, concerns, questions. They've been to college before in some way, shape or form, but they still need that pertinent information.
00;31;47;26 - 00;32;09;27
Rita Winthrop
And so they should also have a dedicated comms flow that doesn't only just happen in the summer time, it should be happening year round with their deadlines and their credit transfers and that they can still complete their degree in X amount of years or whatever it is, and that they can start on a new campus and still find their community and still have a home.
00;32;10;07 - 00;32;37;20
Rita Winthrop
And I often have seen colleges treat those students like, well, we didn't make our class with our freshmen, so we have to get the transfers now. It should be a full year conversation with transfers in there. And I think like they often convert at a higher rate once they feel that connection. I felt like if a transfer student was reaching out to me, they really wanted to be there because they're a little bit more selective than students tend to be that first year.
00;32;37;26 - 00;32;58;12
John Azoni
Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I was a transfer student, you know, I went to Maryland's to College of Art for a little bit and then transferred over to College for Creative Studies in Detroit. And so I imagine that there are a lot of students, you know, like me, that need that that sort of, you know, guidance and stuff, because there's a whole set of problems that come along with, you know, with transferring.
00;32;58;12 - 00;33;10;26
John Azoni
And will my scholarships transfer? Yeah, like you said. Well I find community there because I've missed out on, you know, the all the freshman orientation. Right. You know, belonging community building stuff. So yeah that's good.
00;33;11;10 - 00;33;28;13
Rita Winthrop
Yeah. There definitely a special group They do require a little extra hand-holding at times but oftentimes they don't need all the extra like fancy stuff too, because they're like, I know exactly that this is where I want to be. And it's just helping them through the process and making sure that they've got their paperwork in and all of that.
00;33;28;13 - 00;33;46;28
Rita Winthrop
But some of like the best students I've ever worked with where transfer students and I mean, I'm still in touch with some of them today and I haven't worked at my previous institution for five years. So I think it's a testament to that like relationship building that you can really change the trajectory of a student's life. And I think transfers are a really good example of that.
00;33;47;09 - 00;34;08;03
John Azoni
And it's a great population to think about in your content to. I don't see a lot of content being made for transfer students. I mean, you get the first generation college students that they get a lot of attention and I was thrilled to see. So we worked with one college this past year and did like six days of filming with them.
00;34;08;03 - 00;34;24;26
John Azoni
And then just in the middle of that, we didn't plan on this. They were kind of like, Oh, well, this person's a transfer student, let's just like quick interview with them. So we did a couple quick interviews, cobbled together like a cool looking video that was just for for transfer students. And then I went on their meta ads library.
00;34;24;26 - 00;34;46;13
John Azoni
I was like, Oh, they're using this as adds, This is great. Like, I was so pumped to see that's cool. And add for transfer students with this cool little quick impromptu video that we made and that's just running, I'm like, That's smart, but why aren't why aren't colleges doing this kind of stuff and thinking about who their population is and like how they can reach them with, you know, with paid ads and things like that.
00;34;46;13 - 00;35;09;05
Rita Winthrop
Right. We were really mindful about trying to always have like at least one or two transfer students on our tour team of the students who gave the campus tours, because then whenever I had a student who was interested in coming to visit, I could be like, I have a transfer student who's going to show you campus. And that was like a even more personalized experience because they could say, like, I did this.
00;35;09;12 - 00;35;24;23
Rita Winthrop
I walked through the process with Rita also, this is what you're going to need to do. Here's where I've made friends or what have you. And I think there's ways to really create that community, even when it's like outside of your hands a little bit. And that's a really huge way to do it.
00;35;25;02 - 00;35;32;21
John Azoni
Perfect. Well, Rita, that's been a super great conversation. Tell us about your business and yeah, what you do and how people can connect with you.
00;35;33;01 - 00;35;36;07
Rita Winthrop
We do. And when I say we, I mean me.
00;35;36;24 - 00;35;37;08
John Azoni
It's me.
00;35;38;19 - 00;36;03;07
Rita Winthrop
She's a solopreneur. So I have been running my own consulting business for about two and a half years now. So I predominantly work with higher ed institutions, edtech companies, doing all the things that we talked about, a lot of email comms, a lot of SEO EO web content to really kind of optimize the experience of students or families or whoever we're trying to engage with.
00;36;03;09 - 00;36;22;14
Rita Winthrop
So I think, you know, if this resonated today, I would love for folks to reach out and have an extra conversation. I'm pretty active and maybe obnoxious on LinkedIn. I don't know. You can decide. I'm that's where we became friends. So just read a Winthrop on LinkedIn and then my Web site is read a Winthrop dot com.
00;36;22;14 - 00;36;31;08
John Azoni
So and you had good stuff. One of your posts on LinkedIn that was really snarky was about EdTech vendors. So tell me your opinion about strong.
00;36;31;08 - 00;36;55;27
Rita Winthrop
Feelings about that. And I can say that because I have been an ad tech vendor in my life. I think there's a there's a few things. It's like, don't even try to talk to admissions people in the month of April. Like, you're so rude. Don't just don't. If you are reaching out to someone in admissions in the month of April like expect to get yelled at like and quite frankly if you're in edtech, you should know better.
00;36;56;23 - 00;37;16;07
Rita Winthrop
You should know better. But also, I think one of the other things that a lot of people do is they go straight for the V.P., which cool, We love our VP of enrollment. They're amazing people and they've worked really hard in their career to be where they are. But most of the time, the people who are doing the daily grind work are the enrollment counselors.
00;37;16;16 - 00;37;33;03
Rita Winthrop
Number one, they're seeing the students firsthand. They're the ones who are on the road. Sometimes they're the ones who are writing the columns. They're doing the bulk of that engagement work. Whereas like the VP is kind of, you know, he's t or she's overseeing the whole shebang. And so they're not necessarily in the day to day of that.
00;37;33;03 - 00;37;55;13
Rita Winthrop
So your product, whatever it needs, is needs to be built for that type of a person. It doesn't need to be built for a VP, It needs to be built for a counselor and to like, I think what also they need to be mindful of is most schools are understaffed and under-resourced. They don't need something that's going to like sell transformation.
00;37;55;21 - 00;38;17;28
Rita Winthrop
They need something that's going to save time, save them money and make their regular everyday processes more simple. And if your product doesn't do that, then you might want to rethink your selling points because there needs to be an immediate value. Like they don't want to have another platform, they don't want to have something else that they have to learn.
00;38;18;08 - 00;38;41;17
Rita Winthrop
They don't have necessarily something that they have to teach to a million things at a million different people. They need to be able to like, learn it quickly and also have the support on the back end from the company, whoever selling it. Same thing, right? Like same as the admissions handoff at me. One like if they buy a new product from you, they need to have support when they can't figure out how to use something or whatever, it is perfect.
00;38;42;01 - 00;38;56;14
John Azoni
And normally I would not promote the next episode, but because you're are we talking about parent communications? Yes. And your friend Laura Rudolph coming? I have a yes call with her in like half an hour. Oh, my God. Good.
00;38;56;26 - 00;39;03;00
Rita Winthrop
She and I texted one after we got off our pre call last week, two weeks ago, I was like, Oh, my God, I'm meeting him too.
00;39;04;13 - 00;39;11;09
John Azoni
So we're just rounding up all, you know, all the people in readers circle here. But yeah, coming up on the higher ed storytelling.
00;39;11;09 - 00;39;15;06
Rita Winthrop
Universe, coming soon, we're going to direct to me. Yeah, stick with Laura.
00;39;15;18 - 00;39;18;14
John Azoni
We're going to dive deeper into that parenting discussion.
00;39;18;22 - 00;39;19;04
Rita Winthrop
Yeah. Okay.
00;39;19;24 - 00;39;23;07
John Azoni
Well, cool. Super great to chat with you. Thanks for coming on the show.
00;39;23;13 - 00;39;27;08
Rita Winthrop
Thank you so much. This is so fun. I feel like we could do this every week.
00;39;27;08 - 00;39;37;02
John Azoni
Let's do it. I want you to be our weekly correspondent anytime. I don't have an episode, which is periodically and I just skip a week. Yeah, I would call read up your sources.
00;39;37;22 - 00;39;42;12
Rita Winthrop
And I always I can always run my mouth about something that's have to be attack, you know.
00;39;43;03 - 00;39;43;15
John Azoni
Perfect.
00;39;44;08 - 00;39;44;18
Rita Winthrop
So.
