#18 - Fundraising: How Storytelling Helped Achieve a Single Gift of $27.1 Million - and More With Tammy Zonker of Fundraising Transformed
Emotions drive outcomes. That’s why vulnerability is at the heart of successfully getting people to take the action you want them to take. This is true in marketing, this is true in parenting, this is true in so many areas of life, and it’s especially true in fundraising. Vulnerability breaks down walls quicker than anything and the fast track to vulnerability and emotions is human-centered storytelling. That’s why I’ve got my friend and former colleague and renowned fundraising expert with us today to talk more about that - Tammy Zonker.
Tammy is a wonderful human being whose work I’ve followed for over a decade now. She is the founder of Fundraising Transformed, an organization that helps nonprofits drive intentional change by transforming their fundraising so they can transform the world. And guess what.. The stuff we talk about in this episode applies directly to the higher ed space.
In this episode we talk about storytelling, building relationships, building community as a fundraising strategy and Tammy shares with us the captivating story of how she helped raise a single gift of 27.1 million dollars.
LINKS
Connect with Tammy:
-Linkedin
-Fundraising Transformed
Mentioned in this episode:
-Dochas standard of ethical communication
-Pricing for Video Storytelling Subscription: pricing.unveild.tv
-Download "3 Absolutely Crucial Components Every Compelling College Student/Alumni Testimonial Needs"
Transcript (done with AI so only about 80% accurate):
00:00:00:05 - 00:00:24:11
Speaker 1
Emotions drive outcomes. And that is why vulnerability is at the heart of successfully getting people to take the action you want them to take. This is true in marketing. This is true in parenting. This is true in so many areas of life, and it's especially true in fundraising. Vulnerability breaks down walls quicker than anything, and the fast track to vulnerability in emotions is human centered storytelling.
00:00:24:12 - 00:00:35:05
Speaker 1
That's why I've got my friend and former colleague and renowned fundraising expert with us today to talk more about that. Her name is Tammy Zonker. Stay tuned.
00:00:38:07 - 00:01:02:00
Speaker 1
Hey, welcome to the Higher Ed Storytelling University podcast. A podcast dedicated to helping higher ed marketers tell better stories, create better content and enroll more students. My name is John Azoni. I'm the founder at UNVEILD. We're a video production company working specifically with college marketing teams on automating their video storytelling content through a subscription approach. You can learn more at UNVEILD that TV that's UNVEILD dot TV.
00:01:02:07 - 00:01:21:02
Speaker 1
If you're listening to podcasts for the first time, we'd love for you to follow it. Add us to your regular rotation of podcasts. And if you've been listening for a while now and haven't left a review, I'd love for you to break SEAL and do that. My guest today is Tammy Zonker. Tammy is a wonderful human being whose work I've followed for over a decade now.
00:01:21:03 - 00:01:51:15
Speaker 1
She's the founder of Fundraising Transformed, which is an organization that helps nonprofits drive intentional change by transforming their fundraising so they can transform the world. And guess what? The stuff we talk about in this episode applies directly to the higher ed space. In this episode, we talk about storytelling, building relationships, building community as a fundraising strategy, a bunch of stuff, and also Tammy shares with us the captivating story of how she helped raise a single gift of $27.1 million.
00:01:51:18 - 00:01:58:16
Speaker 1
So let's dive right in. Here's my conversation with Tammy, anchor of Fundraising Transformed. All right, Tammy, thanks for being here.
00:01:59:10 - 00:02:01:09
Speaker 2
My pleasure. Thanks for inviting me.
00:02:01:19 - 00:02:18:09
Speaker 1
So we know each other from way back. So I would say 2009, 2010, somewhere around there from working at the United Way together. So tell me tell me a little bit about your work there and then we'll kind of go from there.
00:02:18:19 - 00:02:47:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I started by own company fundraising transformed in 2008, and that was the year I became an empty nester. And I thought, think about 2008 229, 2010, the year that we you know, we were together at United Way. And so I thought, gosh, if I really wanted to test my fundraising skills, where would I go? And the answer was Detroit.
00:02:48:01 - 00:03:20:15
Speaker 2
Right. So I moved to Detroit and we had a mutual friend, a mutual colleague at United Way, who I'd worked with previously. And he said to me, We need help at United Way. And so the the work there was to really kind of turn the transactional fundraising into more relational fundraising and kind of that giving by obligation into giving through inspiration, through storytelling.
00:03:21:03 - 00:03:27:22
Speaker 2
So really, it was it was the storytelling that brought us together. And I have to tell a story about you.
00:03:29:02 - 00:03:29:21
Speaker 1
Oh, okay.
00:03:31:01 - 00:03:56:05
Speaker 2
So when I was considering taking on that contractual position with the United Way, I, you know, I had like kind of that stereotype about what United Way does, like raises money and gives money away. And that wasn't necessarily the whole story. Right? That's kind of that story type. And so I said, well, I'd like to before we I agreed to come on as a contractor and help do this work.
00:03:57:10 - 00:04:23:11
Speaker 2
I'd like to get a sense of the work that you are doing. And so they introduced me to you and Nick Monteiro. So at the time you were both really working like, roll your sleeves up, hand to hand with the Detroit population of unhoused people, and you took me on a ride along, the two of you into it, right?
00:04:23:20 - 00:04:35:00
Speaker 2
Yes. And like that, soon as I spent that afternoon with the two of you in doing that work, witnessing, meeting people, and I was told.
00:04:36:04 - 00:04:37:21
Speaker 1
Wow, I never knew that.
00:04:38:15 - 00:04:41:02
Speaker 2
John, you've had a profound effect on me.
00:04:42:05 - 00:05:08:08
Speaker 1
That's cool. Yeah. For people listening, I used to do well back back in the day, we we didn't have the word unhoused when we did the homeless outreach. So, yeah, with my my best friend Nick, who's the best man in my wedding. We worked together for a few years and co-led this program called two and one on the Go that brought resources, information and referral resources to the unhoused population in Detroit.
00:05:08:12 - 00:05:29:17
Speaker 1
And yeah, we used to do these ride alongs where because we had a car that had like two, you know, two on one on the go, like painted out, and it was like row, you know, like it was like one of the marketing, you know, what of the marketing gimmicks or whatever. But yeah, we used to do these ride alongs and, and bring people, you know, from the community along with us.
00:05:29:18 - 00:05:36:07
Speaker 1
And so, yeah, I remember I remember you coming coming out with us that one time. I'm glad to hear it. It was a positive experience.
00:05:36:15 - 00:05:37:06
Speaker 2
It was four.
00:05:37:07 - 00:06:06:13
Speaker 1
Now I did take one some one really high like Hyatt member from the Detroit business community and on a ride along and I ran out of gas. We ran out of gas. And her and I walked maybe half a mile to the gas station and bought like a little five gallon thing. Gas came. It was so embarrassing.
00:06:08:00 - 00:06:09:13
Speaker 2
I never heard that story.
00:06:09:14 - 00:06:10:00
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:06:10:16 - 00:06:14:07
Speaker 1
One of those, like, embarrassing work stories that I like to tell.
00:06:16:19 - 00:06:39:16
Speaker 1
But yeah, so? So we worked together at United Way. You were kind of consulting a lot on the messaging, and, yeah, United Way historically was kind of like you donate out of your paycheck kind of thing. And that's where that obligation, you know, thing kind of comes from. You know, it's like a lot of companies. And I think I think I even got it when I was like 18 or 17 or 18.
00:06:39:16 - 00:07:10:17
Speaker 1
I work for Salvation Army, a thrift store. And they they said, you know, do you want to donate such and such percentage to the United Way? So that's kind of how United Way functioned. But when you came along, and I remember they were kind of transitioning to more of a outcomes based model and just kind of really shifting their position in the community and and also coming like switching to more of a storytelling like, you know, heartfelt kind of way of giving.
00:07:10:17 - 00:07:30:02
Speaker 1
So. So yeah, that was. Anyway, that's a long way of saying that's how I know you. So tell me where you're at now. So you're your speaker, you have trainings, you have a newsletter that I follow. What's what's the Tammy Zonker brand about.
00:07:30:15 - 00:08:03:01
Speaker 2
The Tammy Zonker brand? Well, fundraising transformed really is deeply rooted in to two tenets. And the first one is transformation over change. Right. And I think that's the key. I mean, we can make progress and slide back, right? We can. And so what we really want to accomplish at fundraising transformed is true transformation. You know, like our logo incorporates a butterfly.
00:08:03:01 - 00:08:40:00
Speaker 2
And I always say, like, once you become a butterfly, there's no going back to being a caterpillar. And that's the kind of change or transformation, rather, that we really want to create for organizations continually moving the needle up, helping them build systems and practices for deepening relationships with supporters and really with the community at large and and the other tenant that really is a part of the fundraising transform brand or the Tammy Zonker brand is a quote from John F Kennedy, and that is that high tide raises all boats.
00:08:40:11 - 00:09:06:14
Speaker 2
And so we're really intentional about making certain that quite a few resources are available, completely accessible to all nonprofit organizations, regardless of their ability to pay for them. So as you said, the newsletter is free. We have a fundraising transformer mentor community that is free to be a part of where our members can get access to free trainings every month.
00:09:07:03 - 00:09:40:04
Speaker 2
We have the Intentional Fundraiser podcast, which is weekly, and we're interviewing and having great conversation with thought leaders and researchers and communication and branding experts. And in fact, I've got a great, great episode coming up where I had the opportunity to interview Seth Godin about his book, The Song of Significance. So again, just incredible guests. And so that's what the brand is about transformation and accessibility.
00:09:41:11 - 00:10:16:03
Speaker 1
I love that. And that's kind of why I wanted to have you on, because, you know, even, you know, most of my listeners are higher ed marketers in the higher ed space, but there is a big fundraising component to higher education, you know, fundraising from alumni and other community donors and things like that. And and really like a lot of the things that we talk about on this this podcast kind of kind of overlap with the things that I read in your newsletter or just about, you know, those telling meaningful stories and getting out of this transactional type of communication.
00:10:17:16 - 00:10:28:16
Speaker 1
So you have trained and led nonprofit teams to raise more than half a billion dollars. That's pretty cool. That's a lot of money.
00:10:29:11 - 00:10:32:05
Speaker 2
And I think.
00:10:32:05 - 00:10:42:10
Speaker 1
Yeah, and including a single gift of $27.1 million. So tell me tell me about the 27.1 million gifts. Is there a story there? How did that happen?
00:10:42:20 - 00:11:25:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, there's a powerful story there. And it was it took place at the United Way for southeastern Michigan, where we both worked. We were both part of that. You know, that big, hairy, audacious goal that that courageous board. And Michael Brennan, who at the time was the CEO of United Way, you know, they were courageous enough to say in the face of unemployment being 30% in the city of Detroit at that time, one in five homes in the city of Detroit being in foreclosure, even the city of Detroit itself being billion dollars and billions of dollars in debt and in bankruptcy.
00:11:26:02 - 00:11:30:05
Speaker 1
Yeah, like a financial manager had to come in at that time, right? Like an emergency operation.
00:11:31:00 - 00:11:59:12
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And then remember this, the side story, a whole other story about how the debtors were going to seize the art collection at the Detroit Institute of Arts and sell it to help pay off the debt. And thank goodness for some incredible foundations like Kresge and others who came in and and, you know, contributed, saved the art. But yeah, that was that was an incredible time.
00:11:59:12 - 00:12:23:04
Speaker 2
And and so that board at United Way and Mike Brennan, under his leadership, they set a big, hairy, audacious goal inspired by Jim Collins in his book Good to Great where he introduced us all to the BHAG, as he called it. And they said we are going to make Detroit a top city to live and work by 2030, 20.
00:12:23:10 - 00:12:48:02
Speaker 2
I mean, talk about throwing your hat right over the fence and declaring something. And so the story, you know, we we created story tours at United Way where, you know, we totally had boring office syndrome at United Way, you know, because all the work like you did, what happened out in the field, right out in the community and with nonprofit partners.
00:12:48:14 - 00:13:35:08
Speaker 2
But there was you know, what we did have is that 211 call center where more than 300,000 people every year called in asking for basic needs, support, insurance, food, childcare, the gamut. And so we created this story tour and we we had this practice of, you know, engaging top business leaders with a CEO visit. So, you know, Mike Brennan, in some cases a volunteer leader in the case of this $27.1 million gift, it was Jeff Bergeron who at the time was the the head of Ernst and Young in Detroit.
00:13:35:17 - 00:14:01:22
Speaker 2
And in this case, it was myself. So a fundraiser, the CEO, volunteer leader. Right. Perfect trio and the volunteer in this case, the volunteer just got the appointment to have the CEO visit with with Mark Reuss, who at the time was the North American president of General Motors. And, you know, there was a predictable agenda. These visits had happened year over year over year.
00:14:02:15 - 00:14:32:21
Speaker 2
And so this particular visit we sat down, there were niceties exchanged. And then Mark really cut to the chase. He's like, listen, we're we've always run a United Way campaign with our employees and we're going to attempt to do that again, even though we've just laid off 10,000 people. This effort, we are unable to give a corporate gift this year because as you know, we are in bankruptcy.
00:14:34:03 - 00:14:34:10
Speaker 1
Yeah.
00:14:35:14 - 00:14:58:22
Speaker 2
So is there anything else? I mean, he's so gracious and so warm, but essentially he's a really busy guy turning around this, you know, huge company. And so we said, well, yes, actually there is something else. We're not We're grateful for your past support, your employee campaigns. Thank you for being willing to run an employee campaign this year.
00:14:59:00 - 00:15:26:10
Speaker 2
You know, even in the face of extraordinary challenge. But we're not here to talk about fundraising or giving right now. We're here to talk about our vision. We have a vision to make Detroit a top city, to live and work by 2030. And we had a visual. I don't know if you remember it, John. It was a placemat, like an 11 by 17 double sided color matched piece of paper.
00:15:27:13 - 00:15:51:06
Speaker 2
And on one side it highlighted like, here's the bag, and here are the four strategies that we're going to pursue that we are pursuing, that we've piloted in five communities to do this turnaround work. And it was around stopping the hemorrhaging of high school dropouts because at that time Detroit Public schools were graduating about 30% of their students.
00:15:51:17 - 00:16:17:18
Speaker 2
It was about making certain that children showed up to kindergarten, meeting ready to learn standards. It was about getting access to healthy food and financial education, right? That's how to get things, for example, and not cashing your check at the local the corner liquor store or the pay band cash advance, places that, of course, kept a huge percentage.
00:16:18:03 - 00:16:41:11
Speaker 2
So that whole conversation, Jason, was about the work and he was really intrigued by it, like making Detroit a top 20 or top city to live and work by 2030. How how exactly? And he was intrigued by the the strategies and he asked questions. And, you know, frankly, some of the answers we knew and some of them like we're we're we're trying to figure that one out, too.
00:16:42:01 - 00:17:05:02
Speaker 2
So the one ask coming out of that meeting was not for money. The one ask was come to our offices for that for a tour. Mm hmm. And so he did. He came over. Couldn't have been More than six weeks later. We toured him around, and, you know, this seemed like a casual conversation with stories woven in. He put on the headset and listened in on a211 call for help.
00:17:05:13 - 00:17:41:12
Speaker 2
We took him to remember that war room, that conference room with the glass. Yeah, that was all glass and all the Post-it notes with how our how's the work going and where are we? Green on track. Where are we? Yellow, like, at risk. And where are we? Red. Like, huge fail must turn around. And we we talked about where where we were failing and what progress we were making forward, backward and the more vulnerable we got with our story, the more vulnerable he got.
00:17:42:06 - 00:18:04:14
Speaker 2
He said, You know what, Jim? We've lost our soul. We've forgotten who we are. But we're we're going to we're going to make this up. We're going to make it up to Detroit, Michigan. We're going to make it up to the country. And so the one ask coming out of that meeting was not a not for money. It was come to one of these schools.
00:18:04:20 - 00:18:27:04
Speaker 2
And he really got excited about the high school turnaround work. And you may recall we were having success in five of the 30, what, secretary of education at the time, Dr. Arnie Duncan called dropout factories in Detroit. Right. 1200 dropout factories in the US. 30 of them were in Detroit. Five of them United Way was doing turnaround work.
00:18:27:04 - 00:18:48:11
Speaker 2
That was really exceptional. Mike ten Bush was leading that. I mean, so many great and passionate minds and heart. So he came on the tour. We what? So he said, yes, I'll come on the tour that school. But I would like to see a proposal for what it would take to turn around five more schools. So fast forward, we tour the school.
00:18:49:19 - 00:19:13:15
Speaker 2
He comes into a library room where there are virtually no books. He meets and again, who's there every step of the way? The CEO, Mike Brennan, Jeff Bergeron, the volunteer, myself and other United Way folks. And so it's this is no short way to tell this story because it's just so juicy.
00:19:14:22 - 00:19:20:21
Speaker 1
But as long as you need this, I'm I'm I'm engaged.
00:19:20:23 - 00:19:52:12
Speaker 2
So we came into that room. There were four principals. There were three students were had been prepared to tell their story. And then we start a group of staff and volunteers and so that the students told each of their stories, which were remarkable, you know, having been put out by their families still coming to school. And in fact, one young woman, Destiny, she had us all in tears.
00:19:53:02 - 00:20:20:21
Speaker 2
She's telling her story that she keeps coming back to the school. And Mark asked her, well, why don't you just go to a school near where you live now, you know, down river? And she said because she pointed it at her principal, she said, Mr. MATTHEWS, he's my big dog, where when I'm in trouble, when upperclassmen come pushing up on me, when I need something, when I don't know where to turn, he's got my back.
00:20:21:14 - 00:20:47:10
Speaker 2
She these principals, these teachers were so committed, they gave the students their cell phone numbers, permission to text them any time they needed help. They were working so many hours because they believed in these kids and their potential and everything that they could become. And so the kids told their story. They left. We were like blotting tears, every one of us.
00:20:47:21 - 00:21:19:00
Speaker 2
And then the teachers or principals told why they do this work, why they are so connected to these kids. And they really they had similar stories to many of the kids who shared their stories, grew up in with generational poverty, have experienced institutional racism, have experienced violent communities, which again, is just an expression of the prior the poverty and and racism, etc..
00:21:19:10 - 00:21:53:11
Speaker 2
So then the principals left and I had the privilege of walking mark through the proposal line by line, by line by line. We'd also talked about how volunteer like Detroit I'm sorry, General Motors volunteers and retirees could mentor and support and volunteer, do food, drive them school supply drives and all kinds of things. And again, what it would cost financially to turn around five more schools and five early learning communities because it wasn't enough to stop the hemorrhaging of high school dropouts.
00:21:53:16 - 00:22:24:08
Speaker 2
We had to set kids up for success from the very beginning, and so then completely appropriate. Mike Brennan, the CEO. After I walked through the line item proposal, Mike said, So we're asking you to make an investment of $27.1 million in the United Way for our our Educational Turnaround initiative. And John, there was so much silence like we had we had rehearsed everything up to that moment.
00:22:25:13 - 00:22:49:17
Speaker 2
Mike made the ask. There's complete silence and Marcus is looking at the proposal. He's nodding his head. He pushes himself back from the table and he says, Let's do this. I have no no idea how we're going to do this, but we will do it. And and frankly, then he looked turn to me and he said, and I want to know how you're going to leverage this with the other autos and the suppliers.
00:22:49:17 - 00:23:18:15
Speaker 2
And then there was more silence because we had never rehearsed what to say. If you said yes. And so I said, thank you. This is a day we will never forget. So fast forward. Shortly after Thanksgiving, General Motors pulled out of bankruptcy, went back on the New York Stock Exchange, a press conference was held at the high school, the Turnaround High school.
00:23:19:00 - 00:23:58:13
Speaker 2
And Mark, along with a student, announced this gift of $27.1 million and all the volunteerism that would follow between General Motors and United Way. And in the end, that money was paid out over five years through the foundation. And this just extraordinary, extraordinary. But what I want to do is just take the opportunity to put three exclamation points on the end of that story that everyone can learn from, that I still apply and my fundraising training and coaching and the work that I do today.
00:23:58:21 - 00:24:32:07
Speaker 2
The first John to have a big hug, a big hairy, audacious goal, a compelling and urgent vision, something that's not just like we were plodding along trying to make ends meet, right? Courage, vision, inspiration. The second the power of peer to peer engagement, the fact that Jeff Bergeron that leadership volunteer, was at every one of those meetings, shared his own personal connection, his own love of the work, and why he volunteers.
00:24:33:02 - 00:25:07:08
Speaker 2
I mean, that's why he personally gives a significant gift as well. I mean, that is just priceless. And then, of course, just leadership, having courage, having that level of belief that these problems, they're not they're not a foregone conclusion, It's not hopeless. But we can actually make change even more. So we can transform. But it takes it takes a leader, a group of leaders over time.
00:25:07:11 - 00:25:18:08
Speaker 1
Wow, That's such a good story. I didn't know any of that. But I know all those names and like Mike ten, but I haven't heard that name in a long time. I love that guy.
00:25:19:23 - 00:25:21:05
Speaker 2
The tacular leader.
00:25:22:04 - 00:25:52:00
Speaker 1
The particular Mike Brennan to obviously. Yeah. And what I love about that is the also just the power of vulnerability, because what you didn't do was say you know, here's here's what we're doing here is, you know, the more transactional stuff, here's what we're here's what we want to do, here's how we want to do it. Here's how we use the money, because that keeps you in the what that sort of logical brain space.
00:25:52:00 - 00:26:16:03
Speaker 1
But but really, what what what I really clued in to was talking about your failures or the short where or not failures, but where you were struggling. Because I think a lot of organizations, I want to say like 99% of organizations will say, we've got to be positive. We got to we got to put on the glossy exterior.
00:26:16:15 - 00:26:31:12
Speaker 1
But really, it's really about inviting your supporters into a story that's unfolding. And everybody knows that a good story is not perfect all the way through. Like you wouldn't go see a movie that didn't have any conflict to it. You just wouldn't.
00:26:32:06 - 00:26:38:10
Speaker 2
Absolutely. And where is the opportunity for the donor to make a difference if everything's fine?
00:26:39:22 - 00:26:42:04
Speaker 1
Right? Yeah, absolutely.
00:26:42:05 - 00:26:45:08
Speaker 2
Donor shaped hole in every story.
00:26:46:22 - 00:26:56:14
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Oh, that's such a good that's such a good thing to think of. Where is the donor role? If everything's fine? Yeah.
00:26:57:00 - 00:27:21:05
Speaker 2
Fundraising is so much about relationships, and we think about the relationships that we have that are the closest to our hearts. There's trust. Right. And and you said there is a vulnerability. And so if for not telling what like the problems we're encountering, the barriers. What are your ideas? And that was part of the appeal to Mark was like, you're turning around.
00:27:21:05 - 00:27:38:11
Speaker 2
GM We're trying to turn around education, your vision, your thinking and those around you. We need that thinking. And and so I just think it's important. If if everything's rosy, then I almost don't trust you. Like, you're not telling me the whole truth.
00:27:39:12 - 00:27:58:01
Speaker 1
Right? Yeah, exactly. And I love that. That just the power of vulnerability in sharing stories and how it really was, really the power of real, authentic stories to shape the emotions of. His name's Mark.
00:27:58:08 - 00:27:58:18
Speaker 2
Mark.
00:27:59:09 - 00:28:32:23
Speaker 1
Mark writes microwave to just shape his, you know, emotions to make a decision like that. And, you know, I talk a lot on this podcast about real actual storytelling, like when we think about stories or this buzzword of storytelling, we think, well, it's if I, if I dump a bunch of information into a video or into a live presentation, maybe in the video context, set it to an inspirational song.
00:28:33:02 - 00:28:52:11
Speaker 1
I've done the storytelling thing and that's not a story like we all know what a story is. If you were to say, I want to hear about a party with someone, I'm saying, Hey, let me tell you this great story we're at. We're a school and we do this, this and this, and and and our professors are great and we have smaller class sizes.
00:28:53:02 - 00:28:55:13
Speaker 1
Like you be like, that's not Where's the story?
00:28:56:14 - 00:29:12:04
Speaker 2
I mean, about a student. Tell me about a professor. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think that that's why your video work is so powerful, is that you work so hard to get to the essence of the real story.
00:29:12:19 - 00:29:35:16
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. And I noticed a lot, you know, a lot of schools that I work with. There is a there is a hesitancy to to really go anywhere else with the messaging except for staying on the school and really that that really is making the school the hero and the hesitancy to really talk about something completely different that really has nothing to do with marketing your school.
00:29:36:16 - 00:29:59:03
Speaker 1
But it's it's, it's really it's it's that act of sort of priming those emotions because you're taking them on a journey where they're not being marketed to. So they have they have a reason to stick around and and come around and absorb the information that you are going to tell them, you know, because you do need to tell them.
00:29:59:03 - 00:30:07:21
Speaker 1
Here's here's what we plan to do or here's you know, here's the here's you know, why you should care, but you're really kind of just priming those emotions.
00:30:08:14 - 00:30:45:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, I totally agree. You know, philanthropy is completely optional. No one has to give their hard earned money. And so we owe it to them to engage them in a heart centered way. Heart and head. Right. So that that when they choose to give, they have they get that they value exchanges. I made a difference. You know, I'm affirming my identity of who I want to be is someone who's caring, compassionate, who is generous.
00:30:46:05 - 00:30:54:02
Speaker 2
And so without that story and that emotional connection, that identity just really doesn't get affirmed.
00:30:54:19 - 00:31:15:15
Speaker 1
Quick break here to tell you more about our video storytelling subscriptions. Look, making even one video takes a lot of legwork. There's a lot of steps you've got to go through, get heard all the cats, and then you get one video out of that. But imagine a world where you'd get 132 videos across the whole year, and pretty much all you had to do was find the stories to tell and pass that on to someone else.
00:31:15:16 - 00:31:44:23
Speaker 1
Well, that someone else is us UNVEILD. Our aim is to take the friction out of telling great stories through video. Whether you're a big school or a small liberal arts college, you can tell really compelling stories All year round, wherever you are in the world, and fill your content calendar with video content. With our approach, we best shoot a year's worth of content, and then every month drip out to you one new student or alumni story along with a whole package of additional video content.
00:31:44:23 - 00:32:08:20
Speaker 1
So you get the full length story, which is usually 2 to 3 minutes. You'll get a 32nd and a 15 second cut down to use in various ways, and you'll get eight topical videos which are, you know, while we have this person sitting in front of us, we can ask them anything that we want. So we work with your school to come up with what are eight or ten things you can ask this person about scholarships, career development opportunities, about professors, about the class sizes, whatever those things are.
00:32:08:21 - 00:32:32:14
Speaker 1
We will create eight little topical videos from those strategic questions that we ask the student for you. So that's 11 videos per month, 132 videos per year. And on top of that, we'll give you all the footage, all the B-roll and interview footage to use forever. No extra charge, that's all just part of your subscription and you can make unlimited content from that in addition to the polished videos that we create for you.
00:32:32:20 - 00:32:52:04
Speaker 1
So if you are like me and you want to know pricing before you actually get too far into researching something, you can go to pricing. DOT UNVEILD to be UNVEILD as UNVEILD and you can download our pricing guide, which has all the information in it that you'll ever need to know. The next step from there is just to book a call with us.
00:32:52:11 - 00:33:03:05
Speaker 1
So I hope you'll do that. And now back to my conversation with Tim is anchor What kind of organizations do you typically work with? Is it is it all not? It's nonprofits, right?
00:33:04:12 - 00:33:39:20
Speaker 2
I work with social service organizations, hospitals and hospital foundations. I do work with community colleges and universities of goodness. And then, of course, the whole like a broad type of of social service organizations, everything from animal welfare to, you know, hospice care and behavioral health and mental health and I've got a wonderful couple land trust that I'm working with right now.
00:33:39:20 - 00:33:47:12
Speaker 2
So I think there's a great mix. I mean, I just am never short of inspiration in my daily work. I just put it that way.
00:33:49:08 - 00:34:04:05
Speaker 1
And so what are some like what do organizations most often get wrong? And maybe when you start working with someone and and they say, here's what we've been doing up to this point, what makes you go, okay, here's here's where our work comes in?
00:34:04:14 - 00:34:38:23
Speaker 2
Yeah. The first thing I think is that too often organizations focus on the money versus people, right? It is my friend Tony Myers, who's a brilliant Canadian consultant. He's doing a lot of work in Eastern Europe right now, which is very cool. He says if you're really only interested in their money, they know that if you're interested in them as a person, they know that to right.
00:34:38:23 - 00:35:09:00
Speaker 2
So people too often they focus on the money versus the people who focus on the people. The generosity will come. So I think that's one thing that organizations get wrong a lot, not because they don't care about people, but because there's so much pressure to hit your fundraising goals. Yeah, I've literally had CEOs say to me when I was a chief development officer, like, if we don't hit that number, I want you to be thinking about who on your team will need to be let go.
00:35:10:05 - 00:35:10:15
Speaker 1
Right.
00:35:11:15 - 00:35:46:05
Speaker 2
Great. Let me think about that. And it's just the reality. So there's so much pressure, so focused on the money versus people. Is a big problem. Playing it too safe, like whether it's what you were saying, like, oh, I don't know, that might be too emotional for us or that's not really my voice, the CEO might say, or whomever is putting their signature on whatever that communication is, or even the donors always.
00:35:46:05 - 00:36:23:21
Speaker 2
Right, Right. I mean, whether it's about overhead percentage being the most effective way to measure how great the organization is doing or not, and letting the donor continue thinking that it is or whether a donor might say something that I like to think unintentionally, unknowingly is a reinforcing a stereotype or racist and not leaning into that conversation and saying, you know, a lot of people have said that to me.
00:36:24:04 - 00:36:54:12
Speaker 2
And I can see why you might think that. But here's what I've learned, right? Without having the courage to course correct a donor when they are obviously wrong and there's there's research out there that says donors want partnerships. They want to learn and grow through their giving and their partnership with nonprofit. So actually correcting them about that thing, they think about the people who participate in your programs or that stereotype about that community or that neighborhood correcting.
00:36:54:12 - 00:37:11:20
Speaker 2
They actually appreciate that. Yet we often don't have the courage to do it. And then the other thing, my third thing is when organizations focus too much on their history. We were founded in 1929.
00:37:11:20 - 00:37:18:16
Speaker 1
Oh, I love I love that one, because I, I think about that often.
00:37:18:16 - 00:37:26:06
Speaker 2
So here's what I tell my folks. I tell them people applaud the past. They fund the future.
00:37:27:01 - 00:37:27:09
Speaker 1
Hmm.
00:37:27:18 - 00:37:54:06
Speaker 2
So way better to talk about the need, not the organization's need, but the need for those who are participating in your case, like the students, I'm working on the capital campaign right now for an organization, and they don't need bricks and mortar. It's actually a comprehensive campaign. They want to pay their professors and their staff what they deserve because they've got a huge turnover.
00:37:54:13 - 00:38:21:08
Speaker 2
They want to double the number of student scholarships that they're awarding each and every year, and they want to grow their endowment. Right. So those are the needs I'm talking about. It's not the I want to grow the endowment because we want to have an impressive balance sheet. I want to grow the endowment so the investment, the interest income can help us serve more students, award more scholarships, cover more operating costs, etc..
00:38:22:08 - 00:38:49:07
Speaker 1
Right. And I think especially in higher ed, that the idea of the origin story is where when we say, you know, storytelling or we need to tell our story, that's kind of where it makes perfect sense. But that's, I think, where people's minds go. What is what is the story of our school? Well, the only thing to talk about is where we started and, you know, how how we've progressed.
00:38:49:12 - 00:39:11:15
Speaker 1
And that is and that is that is important at some at some level, I'm working with a school right now on they call it their institutional saga. We're going to create this like 20 minute documentary on, you know, the history of the school and why it matters and stuff like that. And there's there's definitely like a place for that.
00:39:12:14 - 00:39:43:13
Speaker 1
But the idea of storytelling applies also to like how the tell me, like tell me stories about how your product is impacting somebody's. What are they? Well, how are they changing the world because of some influence that you've had on them? I would say to like maybe your company sells paper, you know, there's no well, how are you going to tell a story about a, you know, paper making company?
00:39:43:13 - 00:40:11:10
Speaker 1
Well, people use paper, you know, for all kinds of things. You know, they create a banner for, you know, their dad in the military coming home. You know, for the first time in two years. You know, it's like stuff like that where it's like we have to think below some of the layers of the onion to sort of get to some It's about storytelling is about stories, not necessarily just the one story of your organization.
00:40:11:23 - 00:40:20:05
Speaker 2
I love that it's so true. Like, what is the impact, the emotional impact? Yeah, powerful.
00:40:20:17 - 00:40:36:16
Speaker 1
So what what would you say are the major tenants of successfully raising funds you might have talked to and you might have kind of this might overlap with what you've already said, but are there are there are a few things that you would, you know, stand on your soapbox about.
00:40:37:04 - 00:41:11:21
Speaker 2
Yes. And I often do. So. So the soapbox topic again is focus on relationships and shared values and really getting to know donors and, you know, some of that is 1 to 1. Some of it is through surveys because it's one to many. Some of it is through small group gatherings like well, however, can have a feedback loop like getting to know our donors and truly knowing why they care and then taking that information and personalizing their communication based on it.
00:41:12:07 - 00:41:47:19
Speaker 2
The second piece is really data informed strategies. I mean, it's not as great as the story, but we need the data informed strategy to know, okay, who based on our data, our donor retention rate, the number of donors we have giving in different gift value segments or different affinity groups like monthly giving or alumni giving or whatever those affinity groups might be, we need to identify them and have a strategy so that we can even share the story that would be the most meaningful to them.
00:41:48:06 - 00:42:25:09
Speaker 2
Right? So having a data informed strategy and of course retention as a priority, I know that there is a generosity crisis occurring right now in the US, and there's a book by that title, Generosity Crisis by Nathan Chappell and Brian Crimmins and Michael Ashley, and they illuminate the fact that we have a problem, right? Well, giving continues to grow every year from a dollar value to the number of U.S. households is shrinking rapidly.
00:42:25:20 - 00:42:51:04
Speaker 2
So it has been going down for seven quarters in a row. Used to be 66% of households gave and now less than half of US households give. And based on their research, if that trend continues at the current rate, household giving will be single digit in 49 years.
00:42:51:04 - 00:42:51:16
Speaker 1
Wow.
00:42:52:08 - 00:43:25:06
Speaker 2
Yeah. So we need to retain our donors. We need to inspire them with stories. And again, I can meet with donors one on one and tell them the story. But again, video is such a powerful tool and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but that's so flex topic is how how to really share and create powerful, inspiring video stories that you can share with groups of people or even individually, you know, but digitally.
00:43:26:02 - 00:44:05:04
Speaker 2
So focus on relationships, data inform strategies, and then, you know, sharing those stories within specific communities. And that's the thing more and more data is saying, especially as we look at Gen X, Y and Z, belonging is so important to them, like they support causes, not necessarily organizations right. So they might be all about mentoring but don't really have a preference between whether it's Big Brothers, Big Sisters or Boys and Girls Club, the local boxing gym, right?
00:44:05:04 - 00:44:15:01
Speaker 2
So creating community I think is another thing that we really need to focus on. I could get on a soap. I'm I'm building a soap box for that one.
00:44:15:01 - 00:44:21:23
Speaker 1
Okay. We'll keep an eye out for that and let the record show I did not pay you to say that video is important.
00:44:23:23 - 00:44:26:06
Speaker 2
And it is important. It's actually crucial.
00:44:27:13 - 00:44:35:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. You say in your I think it's in your LinkedIn bio or something that Eminem is your favorite storyteller. Tell me about that.
00:44:36:02 - 00:45:07:19
Speaker 2
Well, he's like, he is Detroit. He he is authentic. He and undeniably, he is transformation. Right? So he tells such compelling stories in such an authentic way, in such a vulnerable way. I mean, he tells it all. And yet and yet there is inspiration in that he checks that it's emotional. He's authentic, he's vulnerable, and he leaves you inspired.
00:45:09:14 - 00:45:37:18
Speaker 1
I think he's like the such a good example of, you know, if you look at rap artists and compare that to organizations that market themselves, like 90% of rap is just I have a lot of money and I know how I get a lot of women. It's like the same. I I'm just like, are you serious? Like no one will say anything except for I have a lot of money and I get a lot of women.
00:45:40:03 - 00:45:40:14
Speaker 3
And.
00:45:42:12 - 00:46:11:07
Speaker 1
And even the females are now talking about, you know, just sex explicitly and just like and it's like every, every song coming out of like a rap, like female rap artist has its own box that it goes in. But very few, you know, hip hop artists are actually telling stories. And yeah, he is he is somebody that really I feel like just says like, I'm not I'm not just going to come out here and just come up with a good beat that I can say I have.
00:46:11:07 - 00:46:28:04
Speaker 1
I'm awesome over, you know, I'm going to actually tell a story in a unique way and I'm going to show you that I have perfected my craft of writing of of, you know, emotional storytelling, of saying something real.
00:46:28:12 - 00:46:51:18
Speaker 2
Yes. You know, so I'm going to share with your listeners, like the first question he asks in the song Lose Yourself. He says, If you had one shot or one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted, in one moment, would you capture it or just let it slip? Like, Whoa. Mm hmm. I'm going to capture it.
00:46:51:18 - 00:46:52:12
Speaker 1
Absolutely.
00:46:52:20 - 00:47:19:00
Speaker 2
Isn't that what the nonprofit community is all about? Like not stepping over people who are marginalized, not stepping over opportunities to serve, to make to rise that tide, to have all boats rise, to help children and youth and families and seniors, you know, be the amazing people they were born to be. And isn't that what every college and university does?
00:47:19:15 - 00:47:42:11
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, it's for sure. I mean, colleges and universities, I think, you know, many of which are for profits, for profit entities, but have such an opportunity to make an incredible impact. And some of the stories that I've heard, you know, as in our work with with schools and working with students and alumni, are just really, really cool.
00:47:42:11 - 00:48:07:01
Speaker 1
I mean, let's like you have you have a school and a, you know, a set of programs and stuff, but like the people that come through that have such incredible stories and and it's just so it's so impactful to hear like how an opportunity that a school has set up has completely changed their life. Yeah. Have you ever met Eminem?
00:48:08:06 - 00:48:09:02
Speaker 2
I have not.
00:48:09:09 - 00:48:11:10
Speaker 1
I've never even seen him. You know.
00:48:11:10 - 00:48:12:05
Speaker 3
He he's.
00:48:12:14 - 00:48:50:08
Speaker 1
You think you think if you come to Detroit, you're just like, you're just going to walk down, you know, this Rochester road and you're going to see Eminem just hanging out. But I've never seen him. I've lived here my whole life. I've never never once seen him. My wife says he's a great tipper. My wife used to work at T.G.I. Fridays now, but she's she said, I don't know if she was there that night, but she said, she always tells me that there was one time where he came in and like, picked up some like carryout order and tipped the bartender like $300 or something versus like versus like the certain members of the Detroit
00:48:50:08 - 00:49:13:15
Speaker 1
Pistons would come in all the time because it's like, right, right by the palace and and would just now just stiff the waitresses all the time you know but yeah I, I have not seen Eminem. He has a house in he has a I think at least last I hear he's got a big house probably, you know, 15 minutes from where I live.
00:49:13:15 - 00:49:16:16
Speaker 1
I don't know where it is. I've never seen him.
00:49:17:17 - 00:49:42:12
Speaker 2
Oh, now I want to cook up a plan to be, you know, like walking the dog near his estate. No, that wouldn't work. I will tell you, though. So I'm in Ferndale, and I know he has a recording studio on Nine Mile. Or at least he did. And one of his producers had a nice corner loft in the building that that I'm in.
00:49:42:22 - 00:49:46:17
Speaker 2
So I rode the elevator with his producer. Does that count?
00:49:48:04 - 00:50:12:03
Speaker 1
There you go. That's pretty cool. I went my first job ever was working for Kroger as a bag boy at Kroger. And I remember I had a friend, a coworker that was also a bag boy. And he was telling me, yeah, I'm I'm a I'm a rapper. I'm, you know, I'm working with Eminem, Eminem's producers, and on their on their label and stuff like that.
00:50:12:03 - 00:50:24:00
Speaker 1
And now looking back, I'm like, he was lying the whole time. Like, I have never I haven't heard of that kid since, you know, since I was.
00:50:24:00 - 00:50:28:09
Speaker 2
Kind of you to give him the benefit of the doubt when you were 14.
00:50:29:06 - 00:50:37:12
Speaker 1
Yeah, I thought I was in the presence of greatness at the time. You know, That's the closest I had gotten to Eminem.
00:50:37:12 - 00:50:38:18
Speaker 2
I love.
00:50:38:23 - 00:50:49:17
Speaker 1
But So you said you've worked with some some colleges, universities, community colleges. Can you give us maybe a case study of success?
00:50:50:00 - 00:51:21:04
Speaker 2
I can tell you I worked with I was really pleased to work with the university of Wisconsin in Madison on equipping their and it was the advancement team. But bigger than that, it was each of the groups within their student union. And they have I mean, they're really robust student union, you know, communities for LGBTQ students, athlete athlete, athletic students are students who are differently abled or neurodiverse.
00:51:21:16 - 00:51:58:15
Speaker 2
I mean, they've got these wonderful groups of support groups and communities. And so to work with them on their storytelling was really extraordinary. And I like to pride myself on being, you know, highly sensitive to issues of diversity and using language that is honoring respect full, that's dignified, that that dispels myths. And honestly, I know that the surveys the evaluations said they got a lot out of it.
00:51:58:15 - 00:52:32:15
Speaker 2
I got a lot out of it, too. I mean, I feel like the colleges that work at colleges and universities is really pushing the envelope in creating leaders and being inclusive. In addition to the educational component. And so, I mean, I just look that up as, you know, there's always a next level. I mean, I've been storytelling for 20 years and I'm continually learning from my clients in addition to teaching my clients.
00:52:33:05 - 00:53:01:16
Speaker 2
And I think that that's, you know, maybe something for everyone to consider, You know, whether you're newer to the profession or more seasoned in the profession, is that especially in higher ed, there's much to learn, like to co-create. And I think I think that's one of the biggest aha. As I came out of that session and certainly working with other organizations is, is the power of storytelling.
00:53:01:16 - 00:53:26:01
Speaker 2
But to also to be a student, to learn in addition to, you know, teaching storytelling or creating that video, but being open that there are such emerging ways and new insights and new and evolving way to create belonging. So I don't know if I went down a rabbit hole on that one. John, you have to tell me.
00:53:27:13 - 00:53:49:19
Speaker 1
I'm good with me. Sometimes I don't even realize any rabbit holes until I get into the edit like I always feel like I'm the one that's like, that's like, completely like my next question would be, like, completely off. I'm like, I go through that. I'm like, Why did I ask that? Then? You know? But now this is this is super interesting.
00:53:50:11 - 00:54:14:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. So this has been great having you on. Tell me you know, most of our listeners are CMO's at colleges, but there are, there are a lot of like alumni relations folks and advancement officers and things like that. So what would be just kind of like put a bow on it for us, Like what would be, you know, kind of your final words of encouragement to our listeners?
00:54:14:22 - 00:54:48:01
Speaker 2
Mm hmm. I guess my, my final words of encouragement are focus on relationships. Right? And we've talked about that when we talk about donors. But I would also add focus on the relationships within your team and across campus. Right? The best stories come from the professors, the deans, the staff who encounter these young people or nontraditional students on a daily basis.
00:54:48:13 - 00:55:16:13
Speaker 2
And if they have a relationship with you, they're far more likely to share these stories and at least share these little nugget. You know, sometimes stories. The diamond story shows up as a little lump of coal, and it needs it needs a lot of polishing. And that's one of the things that you do so brilliantly. It but but I would say build those relationships all across campus and watch the magic happen, right?
00:55:16:20 - 00:55:21:21
Speaker 2
Because it really is relationships that makes everything work.
00:55:22:16 - 00:56:01:15
Speaker 1
And being like that and being a and really I was like, I would say be a collector of stories, you know? And I think that's one that's one area where like when I start working with the school, it becomes apparent that maybe that's that might be like the first time that they that they've it's kind of like they don't have any stories right then they're going to go find them at that moment and when when collecting stories and building those relationships with people who are on the ground, that would be in touch with those stories when that's an ongoing thing, that's where you get really good stories.
00:56:01:15 - 00:56:18:13
Speaker 1
Like that's when you just when you just say, okay, I've got I've got a week to find, you know, three stories to tell. You're probably going to end up with like the ones where it's just like, I liked the school five stars, you know, And now I have a good job, you know, which is which is fine. But.
00:56:18:22 - 00:56:27:15
Speaker 1
But yeah, building those relationships and really, really always being a collector of stories and looking for those nuggets, I think that's really good advice.
00:56:27:21 - 00:56:50:16
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. And I think really just the one last thing I want to I just think it would be remiss if I didn't say it. And that is, you know, obviously we want content when we tell these stories and consent is more than a form with a signature. Right. So I've I've leaned on the Duchess code of conduct.
00:56:50:16 - 00:57:13:10
Speaker 2
You know again it's something to Google or maybe add in the show notes if you like, that really talks about like giving making certain you give voice that the voice is authentic, that they've approved this story, they know where you're going to share it. When you're going to share it, and they know they can withdraw consent at any time.
00:57:14:04 - 00:57:14:14
Speaker 1
Mhm.
00:57:15:11 - 00:57:16:16
Speaker 2
You know, I just that's really good.
00:57:18:08 - 00:57:35:15
Speaker 1
Yeah. Ethical. Ethical storytelling. I think that's, I think that's really good. Not just you know because a lot of time because a lot of times you know, it's a, it's a, it's, they're volunteering their time to imagine just like you're giving, you're giving a gift to somebody and then they just run with it and all kinds of ways that you're not comfortable with.
00:57:37:01 - 00:57:57:12
Speaker 1
But yeah, I love I love that. Yeah. There's it's one thing to get the media release form signed. It's another to be in relationship with that student and say, Hey, here's here's where this is going to go. Are you comfortable with this? Yeah. So where can where can people find you? Tammy? How can people connect with with your organization and keep up with you?
00:57:57:20 - 00:58:26:15
Speaker 2
Perfect. So thanks for asking the question. So my website is fundraising transformed dot com and there you can sign up for the free newsletter. Here you can sign up to or listen to the Intentional Fundraiser podcast or really we're on all the places that podcasts are served up so you can connect with us there. And I'm on LinkedIn, Tammy Zonker and all across social at Tammy Zonker.
00:58:26:15 - 00:58:32:20
Speaker 2
So you really if you how many anchors are there, right? So Google Earth and you're going to find me.
00:58:33:12 - 00:58:35:02
Speaker 1
So I'll just tell you think it's spelled.
00:58:36:12 - 00:58:49:02
Speaker 2
z0n klr r no s That's the one mistake people say Z anchors, which I think is maybe is. Yeah. Is that is that a verb or an adjective? No, I don't.
00:58:49:02 - 00:58:55:22
Speaker 1
Know. Like I learned recently that Christopher Reeve, his name is not Christopher Reeve's.
00:58:55:22 - 00:58:57:22
Speaker 2
You know that I always think. Yeah.
00:58:59:03 - 00:59:14:04
Speaker 1
I always thought of Christopher Reeve. I did an equestrian documentary a number of years ago, and I was talking to someone that knew him. And I said, Christopher Reeve. And she's like, it's not Reeves, it's Reeve.
00:59:14:04 - 00:59:15:00
Speaker 2
Now we know.
00:59:15:12 - 00:59:20:11
Speaker 1
Now we now see the bonus tip that we get from this podcast. That one's free.
00:59:21:03 - 00:59:25:09
Speaker 2
I will never end well.
00:59:25:09 - 00:59:29:18
Speaker 1
Thank you so much, Tammy. It was so great to have you and so great to catch up to you.
00:59:30:10 - 00:59:35:14
Speaker 2
Yeah, my honor to be here. Awesome to catch up. And let's not let so much time pass.
00:59:36:03 - 00:59:51:19
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Thank you so much for listening. Three things I want to give you before you go. Number one reminder, go to pricing, dot UNVEILD dot TV. If you're interested in our subscriptions and download our pricing guide. Number two, if you want to take the storytelling you're already doing to the next level, I have a free resource for you.
00:59:52:04 - 01:00:10:03
Speaker 1
It's a three part framework for creating compelling student alumni testimonials. You can give it that. UNVEILD Scott TV's Student Testimonials. Number three, leave a review for this podcast to help sell a ton. Thanks for listening. My name is John is gonna go connect with me on LinkedIn. And in the meantime, we'll catch you on the next episode of the Higher Ed Storytelling University podcast.
01:00:10:04 - 01:00:11:10
Speaker 1
Thanks.
