#17 - How Harvard Business School went viral with a simple video that any college can replicate - with raffi der simonian
My guest today is Raffi Der Simonian. He’s the VP and Chief Strategy Officer at ERI, a digital storytelling company making web experiences, apps and marketing strategies that advance your mission, and they do a lot of work with colleges and universities. But before ERI was associated with Raffi’s name he was with a previous company that spearheaded this video for Harvard Business School.
In this video, a Harvard professor leads the class through a challenging case study conversation. This video went viral with over 11 Million views as of posting this. In this episode we take you behind the scenes of the video, how it came together, and why it resonated so well.
Links:
Harvard Business School Video: Watch Here
-Pricing for Video Storytelling Subscription: pricing.unveild.tv
-Download "3 Absolutely Crucial Components Every Compelling College Student/Alumni Testimonial Needs"
Connect with Raffi:
Website
Linkedin
email: raffi@eridesign.com
Transcript:
00:00:00:17 - 00:00:24:00
Speaker 1
There's kind of an old Tik Tok trend that's like, Tell me you’re blank without telling me you’re blank. So it's it's like, tell me you're American without telling me you're an American. And then it shows a guy like putting ranch on everything he eats or something. Maybe that's just a midwest thing. I'm from the Midwest and ranch is definitely a thing in my life for my whole life.
00:00:24:00 - 00:00:49:17
Speaker 1
High school. You know, I was getting that chicken tendies with ranch at lunch and it's got to be that sort of liquidy cafeteria ranch. You know, the Hidden Valley is thicker kind. It's just not the same. It's got to be Gordon Food service cafeteria ranch. That's what you get at a lot of pizza places. Anyway, you know what's really good at this trend is Harvard Business School.
00:00:49:17 - 00:01:10:03
Speaker 1
They made a video that took us inside a really engaging class discussion instead of saying, our classes are great and here's the reasons why they said, no, no, no, we're not going to tell you. We're going to show you. We're going to we're going to tell you without telling you. And this video went viral. It is today sitting at 11 million views.
00:01:10:12 - 00:01:39:06
Speaker 1
And you might say, okay, well, they just did paid ads up the wazoo to get it up to 11 million views. Well, when you factor in the fact that it has 9315 comments and 235,000 likes, that's a really good view to engagement ratio, which says this had a lot of organic legs to it. So today we'll be talking about that video with the help of one of the folks that was behind the wheel of its creation, Raffi Der Simonian.
00:01:39:12 - 00:02:08:08
Speaker 1
Stay tuned. Hey, welcome to the Higher Ed Storytelling University podcast. This is a podcast dedicated to helping higher ed marketers tell better stories, create better content and roll more students. My name is John Azoni I’m the founder at UNVEILD. We're a video production company working specifically with college marketing teams on automating their video storytelling content through a subscription approach, which you can learn more about at unveild.tv.
00:02:08:09 - 00:02:29:22
Speaker 1
That's u-n-v-e-i-l-d dot TV. If you're listening to this podcast for the first time, go ahead. And I guess the term is follow. I've been saying subscribe this whole time, but on on Apple Podcasts, if you go to subscribe, there's not an option. It says follow. So follow this podcast. And also, you know, if you be listening for a while and haven't left a review, I'd love for you to do that.
00:02:29:22 - 00:02:45:16
Speaker 1
And, and another tidbit that I should tell you is that you have to do that through the app on the phone, on your phone, because if you do that on if you try to if you try to go to the show page on the desktop, there's no option to leave review. I don't know what's going on there. Apple, come on now.
00:02:46:03 - 00:03:06:02
Speaker 1
One of your biggest assets as a school and you know, this is your professors and the engaging conversations they bring to the classroom. You've got these bright minds doing great things in the world and bringing that experience into the classroom in really exciting ways. And you should be talking about that in your marketing and you probably are in some way.
00:03:06:14 - 00:03:34:17
Speaker 1
Maybe you get one of your star professors and you sit them down and, you know, we'll interview her about Apple, about her accolades and why students should come to the school and being her program and explain what goes on in the classroom and and things like that. It's it's more explanatory in that and that would be fine. But my guest today is Raffi Der Simonian, and he's the VP and chief strategy officer at ERI a digital storytelling company making web experiences, apps and marketing strategies that advance your mission.
00:03:35:02 - 00:03:55:06
Speaker 1
And they do a ton of work with colleges and universities. But before ERI was associated with Raffi, his name, he was with a previous company called P3 that spearheaded this video for Harvard Business School. I want to play the first few minutes of this video just so you can catch the vision here, because if you don't, you're not really going to understand the rest of the episode very much.
00:03:56:01 - 00:04:14:03
Speaker 1
You can watch the whole thing by going to the link in the description. It’s about 10 minutes long. But if you're just listening to the audio version of the episode, what's happening here is a class discussion. But they they weave in interviews with students. So you'll hear these interviews that take place in a studio environment outside of the classroom as you're listening.
00:04:14:07 - 00:04:18:04
Speaker 1
So I'll play that now.
00:04:18:04 - 00:05:02:14
Speaker 2
Today we put ourselves in the shoes of Cynthia Carroll. Imagine you've become CEO of one of the world's largest mining companies, Anglo American, $25 billion in sales, 162,000 employees, two thirds of them in South Africa. And four months into your job, you hear the news one of the miners in Rustenburg has lost his life yet another fatality. You have to decide, are you going to shut down the mine or continue business as usual?
00:05:03:15 - 00:05:15:16
Speaker 2
David, if you can open for us today, you're Cynthia Carroll. The news comes to you. Do you shut down the mine in Rustenburg, yes or no? What are you going to do?
00:05:15:16 - 00:05:26:21
Speaker 3
So I think she needs to initiate very detailed investigations into what happened in these circumstances and then what has happened throughout the past.
00:05:27:05 - 00:05:29:03
Speaker 2
Are you going to shut down or not shut down?
00:05:29:23 - 00:05:36:08
Speaker 3
So I'm going to do a detailed investigation and then when I have a plan.
00:05:36:16 - 00:05:39:11
Speaker 2
What are you learning? What are you learning in this investigation?
00:05:39:12 - 00:05:45:06
Speaker 3
Practices that are not being followed correctly or out of line or could be safer, or where there's like.
00:05:45:16 - 00:06:06:19
Speaker 2
People are dying. It's not safe. What evidence are you looking for? When you get the opportunity to participate, you need to be able to compact the information that you're going to present in a very concise and clear manner through participation in class everyday. This is something that I am trying to sharpen. Who wants to get in on this?
00:06:07:03 - 00:06:11:06
Speaker 2
It's dynamic. It's fast pace, there's a ton of energy. Everyone's really excited to.
00:06:11:06 - 00:06:12:14
Speaker 3
Jump in and contribute.
00:06:12:18 - 00:06:24:00
Speaker 2
I learn a lot from my peers as much as I learned from the faculty, if not more the professor kind of facility. It's like a orchestra. They kind of direct the music, but they're not necessarily playing it yourself.
00:06:24:10 - 00:06:26:21
Speaker 3
I think we need to shut it down. Minor deaths are.
00:06:26:22 - 00:06:28:03
Speaker 1
Accepted as just a.
00:06:28:16 - 00:06:37:09
Speaker 3
Part of the process of mining. Shutting down the operation will signal a very strong a mentality shift that deaths aren't going to be tolerated and.
00:06:38:02 - 00:06:58:10
Speaker 2
That's called a bold stroke. By the way, what Grant is talking about, what he's also talking about, Robert, he's talking about is a bolt stroke, which means from this day forward, something has shifted. But those of you who disagree say what? Those of you disagree, say what will.
00:06:58:20 - 00:07:15:16
Speaker 3
Think we do much more if we improve the culture around safety in the entire organization. There's some truth that we're trying to work toward. The debates become more and more fun because that's when you get to uncover views that you hadn't thought of. And when you get to push your own thinking and hopefully make your own thinking much, much better.
00:07:16:06 - 00:07:27:13
Speaker 3
If you love your perspective to be constructively challenged by other people, then it is just fascinating how you know your position and your perspective can shift.
00:07:27:13 - 00:07:48:16
Speaker 2
Those of you who want to shut down. How do you respond to this? Leyla We had we shut down the plant because we had safety issues. We made a stand and we started making a safety culture like we had. See the fact that we can have difficult, uncomfortable conversations. We can talk about race, we can talk about politics and still be friends at the end of the day.
00:07:48:21 - 00:07:56:21
Speaker 2
And to have people who are not from a specific group but still have sympathy and empathy is pretty unique.
00:07:57:21 - 00:08:09:14
Speaker 3
Beyond cultural and beyond structural, we also talk about the people, the organization. The overseers are generally white and workers generally black. The language with communication is called vernacular. That's largely a command and control language.
00:08:09:22 - 00:08:20:21
Speaker 2
So you're saying some structural, you're saying some linguistic communication barriers, you're saying some organization, cultural issues around the entire organization.
00:08:21:08 - 00:08:26:20
Speaker 1
John, here. And then I want to skip to the end here so you can know how this resolves.
00:08:26:20 - 00:08:57:10
Speaker 2
30 years ago. Cynthia Carroll 30 years ago, it's actually in your seats in these exact same seats. And because of her, thousands and thousands of miners in the world are paid better and much safer and are leading better lives with much more dignity one day. Not only that could be you. I know that one day it will be able.
00:08:57:10 - 00:09:12:07
Speaker 1
Okay, so that's that. So Raffi Der Simonian, my guest today, directed the production of this video, as I mentioned, through the company. He was at at the time called P3. And let me stop talking so you can hear from him. So here's my conversation with Raffi. Raffi, thanks for being here.
00:09:12:11 - 00:09:15:10
Speaker 4
It's my absolute pleasure, John. Great to be here with you today as well.
00:09:15:14 - 00:09:17:19
Speaker 1
So tell me a little bit about who you are, what you do.
00:09:18:11 - 00:09:50:08
Speaker 4
Sure. So I serve as principal chief strategy officer of e.r. I we are a digital strategy firm that specializes in helping institutions tell their stories specifically by way of strategy, creativity, and technology. My background is in marketing, communications of the arts. I've had the fortune of getting some good experience in higher education, working on the administrative side of the house.
00:09:51:05 - 00:10:18:16
Speaker 4
My first position was for a small liberal arts school in New England, serving as their head of the annual fund and Alumni affairs. My career took me back home to my home state of Maine, where I had the privilege of serving as Maine College of Art and Design's inaugural director of marketing Communications and the annual fund. So I got a chance to lead their external communications.
00:10:19:00 - 00:10:53:04
Speaker 4
One of the common threads throughout my career and this kind of what leads us here today is that I've had the pleasure of getting to know the emotive power of visual storytelling and how it can help move the dial forward for any institution that's trying to engender support, gain visibility, advance a mission. So yeah, basically about five years ago I made the leap to full time consulting and about less than a year ago now merged with I, a massachusetts based firm.
00:10:54:00 - 00:11:20:01
Speaker 4
Today, we work with dozens of leading institutions around the country, helping to tell their story and helping them to determine what sets them apart, what makes them unique from other institutions, and trying to help align how that's communicated through their external facing channels. Most importantly, their website. And obviously, video is a huge part of this. So it's so good to be with you today and to chat with you about this a bit.
00:11:20:09 - 00:11:25:12
Speaker 1
Yeah. Tell me, how was it marketing an art school? I'm curious about that.
00:11:27:08 - 00:11:58:06
Speaker 4
Well, that's a great question. You know, I would say as director of marketing, one of the coolest things about that opportunity was working with so many brilliantly talented creatives. So we at any given time, we could tap into our faculty or student talent base to help out with creative design any sort of creative initiative. With that said, also, you know, a lot of opinions and which is, which is a good thing but can have its moments.
00:11:59:00 - 00:12:05:13
Speaker 4
So I it definitely teaches you to work with all different types of creative folks with different inclinations.
00:12:05:22 - 00:12:10:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, I still have the holes in my ears from my plugs. When I was in art school.
00:12:12:11 - 00:12:18:21
Speaker 1
I was actually just thinking this morning I was like, I should get these like sewed up or something.
00:12:19:18 - 00:12:39:09
Speaker 4
Well, John, I think that's one of the things that when I first was introduced your podcast that stood out to me, the fact that you are an art school, allowing yourself and also an accomplished painter, which I thought was really cool. So it makes the conversation around the art of visual storytelling that much more engaging because it is an art.
00:12:39:19 - 00:13:10:13
Speaker 4
And, you know, like any any expression of any creative medium, there are tips and strategies and ways to make it more impactful. I would say one of the great challenges and honors of being able to tell me College of Art and Design story is the fact that these creative professionals are adding so much to the texture of our lives, of our communities, and to imagine a world without creativity is is something that I only want to entertain.
00:13:10:13 - 00:13:17:16
Speaker 4
So in terms of the value proposition that MECA is providing no shortage of great stories to tell, there good deal.
00:13:17:16 - 00:13:34:14
Speaker 1
So tell me about. All right. So we're talking today about this Harvard Harvard Business School video that went viral that that you worked on. So tell me like you worked on it with your previous company. Right. Just give me give me the kind of the overview of the genesis of that and how it came about.
00:13:34:14 - 00:14:06:11
Speaker 4
Sure. Yeah. So the Harvard Business School project that we worked on, it was a video called Take a Seat Inside the Harvard MBA Classroom. We produced this about three years ago, and I was working with a company called P3, which is one of the top production firms in New England and beyond. And we still do work together, in fact, and they are some amazing collaborators in this particular challenge.
00:14:06:12 - 00:14:45:19
Speaker 4
We were hired by Harvard Business School to help tell the story of the case method. Now, for those of you that don't know the case method is part of what has made the Harvard Business School Education known for what it is and effectively what it what it consists of is it's a real life case study. And in this particular challenge, we were taking students perspective, students, audiences of all different backgrounds, literally inside the Harvard MBA classroom to experience a real life case study.
00:14:46:02 - 00:15:12:16
Speaker 4
And the case study in this instance was a former CEO of one of the world's largest mining companies with something like 165,000 employees, annual sales of over 25 billion, and there was some fatality. And the CEO of this company was faced with the ethical challenge, the dilemma of do you close the facility down or do you keep going?
00:15:12:16 - 00:15:42:23
Speaker 4
What types of measures do you put in place to reduce the likelihood of any other fatalities? And what you get is this amazing conversation, this amazing energy that you know only exists inside the classroom. And in this instance, the former CEO happened to be a Harvard MBA alum. Her name was Cynthia Carroll. So basically, I'll tell you more about this story as we as we go along here.
00:15:42:23 - 00:16:05:20
Speaker 4
But without a doubt, one of the most impactful initiatives I've had the pleasure of working on, and not just because it went viral with more than 11 million views, but because of the experience that we had producing it and some of the friendships and relationships that were formed in the process. Like I mentioned, being able to collaborate with P3 was so much fun.
00:16:05:20 - 00:16:37:17
Speaker 4
And you know, when I say top notch, I mean best in industry. We had such a blast putting this together. Also on the Harvard Business School side. They had a fantastic team. In fact, the person that was driving the initiative, a woman by the name of Mary Knox Miller, an accomplished visual storyteller herself. In fact, she really ran point guard with the pre-production, the vision, kind of laying the table of what needed to what the video needed to accomplish.
00:16:38:00 - 00:17:01:15
Speaker 4
She also did the post-production, so we were really hired as the muscle to come in and collaborate, serve as an extension of her team to really tell the story in an immersive way. You know, I should mention that Mary Knox Miller and I have actually collaborated on some other projects since then. So this is one of the themes that I want to touch on today with you.
00:17:01:22 - 00:17:41:03
Speaker 4
It's a power of collaboration, but basically the end result is a ten minute film, a ten minute short that features live footage from the classroom. It was a six camera shoot. We had four four folks filming inside, plus a gorilla cam set up, and then we augmented it with interviews in the studio. After it. Basically, our challenge was to collect as much dynamic footage as possible that Mary Knox Miller could then take and weave together to tell this narrative and to give an authentic, rare glimpse into what it's like inside the Harvard MBA classroom.
00:17:42:08 - 00:18:03:09
Speaker 1
Cool. I love that. And I thought, you know, when you sent it to me, it was 10 minutes, but didn't feel like that because it really felt like I got you know, it kind of made me think, you know, it's so the classroom was pretty divided in terms of who, you know, who would keep operations going and who would shut them down.
00:18:03:09 - 00:18:20:17
Speaker 1
And at first I was kind of like I'd shut them. I'd probably shut them down. Then I was like, well, now I probably keep going. And I was I just kept flip flopping and I was like, Oh, man, that's a tough decision. And it really, you know, when you when you're presented with the question, it seems very, you know, simple at first.
00:18:20:17 - 00:18:45:11
Speaker 1
But as you as you kind of get into the discussion, you know, you hear other people's perspectives, you realize how much more complicated that that decision actually is. And and then it kind of just ties to how I love how the professor leads the discussion and is like walking around, like pointing that people and making everyone laugh. And, you know, writing stuff on the board is just very engaging.
00:18:46:04 - 00:19:10:09
Speaker 1
And I think and I think I, I responded so well to it because I've been thinking a lot lately about, you know, the the impact that so, you know, one of the things that we talk about a lot in this podcast is storytelling and student and student stories, student outcomes, success stories, that kind of thing. But there's so much other, you know, things that could be effective.
00:19:10:09 - 00:19:42:22
Speaker 1
And another whole category of videos that I think is really effective is actually like giving your audience a sample of what it's like to go there and learn from somebody there and see the teaching style there. And I don't see that enough because I feel like that's it's just super powerful when you can kind of be like you can experience it, I think, along with the class and then and then just kind of leave feeling like I want to learn from that class or that professor like I want I want to do more of that.
00:19:43:00 - 00:19:46:23
Speaker 1
Did you expect it to go viral?
00:19:47:04 - 00:20:12:01
Speaker 4
Yeah, good question. I think the short answer is absolutely not. But it had all of the markings of a great story in the sense that I think anyone can relate to the vulnerability of sharing your positioning in front of a group of classmates or colleagues. And in this instance, it's so evident that in that classroom there is this environment that both challenges and supports you.
00:20:12:17 - 00:20:48:04
Speaker 4
You hit it on the head, John, in terms of I think part of the reason it is a success is that the professor, Professor Siddle Neily, is just so energetic and vibrant and it comes across in a way that is so engaging. I think it's hard to not get sucked into her style of inquiry. Also, I think one of the reasons why it's successful is that I think we can all relate to the fact that our opinions, our, you know, bearings are formed through conversation and through other people's perspectives.
00:20:48:13 - 00:21:24:10
Speaker 4
And one of the cool things about the interviews that happen outside of the classroom is that all these students are kind of they're speaking to a very similar point, which is that being in an environment where it's safe and you're allowed to have differing points of view and debate respectfully is a great way to learn. And I think that's one of the reasons why SIDDLE Neily is such a, you know, excellent professor and why the Harvard Business School brand has been able to grow into the behemoth that it is because they really understand that.
00:21:24:10 - 00:22:03:12
Speaker 4
And I think it's also, you know, I think about when institutions hire us to help tell their story. One of the first things that we ask ourselves is, you know what? What distinguishes you from other institutions? What are some of the stories we call them evidence points that best exemplify what sets you apart and why a prospective student might consider you over the myriad of other, you know, peers and competitors out there and fundamentally, it's our belief that it's all about the power of individual stories and through the perspectives of the students, primarily yes.
00:22:03:12 - 00:22:24:23
Speaker 4
Faculty. Yes. Donors, Yes staff. But I think students are ultimately looking to see themselves through the lens of other students. So in this instance, Harvard Business School's special sauce, there is an essay or whatever it is that you want to call it. We were able to provide a rare glimpse into that and what makes it so powerful and effective.
00:22:25:20 - 00:22:51:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. So I think it's it's interesting to me that, you know, when we talk about differentiating a school, there's only so many qualifiers or like identifiers that to go around. You know, it's that college is a college. It's, it's kind of there's classes, there's students that go to those classes. There's professors that teach the classes. You know, there's different programs and different than different things.
00:22:51:00 - 00:23:14:18
Speaker 1
But like, there's thousands and thousands of colleges that all can't be so distinctly different for me from each other. It really comes down to like, for me, I feel like what differentiates a school is the stories that it tells and the things that says about it, about itself and the ways that it shows that not just says that about themselves, but the way that it shows that.
00:23:14:18 - 00:23:57:22
Speaker 1
So if you're going to say we have world class professors, but but you're not like you're not marketing that wisdom and that knowledge in any way, I think there's a disconnect there because all you've all you've done is said we've had we have world class professors, but like the schools that I've seen that that give kind of like this sampling of their schools I've mentioned in the previous I maybe was when you and I were talking on the phone a while ago but Hillsdale College, they do they have a series of free online courses and I watched like half of one one part of the course and I was like, Oh my gosh, I want
00:23:57:22 - 00:24:19:23
Speaker 1
to go to this school. This is cool, you know? And it's like a movie. And it was like, you, you are left with the impression that the professors and the educational experience is world class in a way that someone just says that you're just like, okay, whatever. Everyone, everyone says. Of course, no one's out there being like, Yeah, we're okay.
00:24:20:00 - 00:24:24:07
Speaker 4
Like, Yeah, absolutely.
00:24:24:13 - 00:24:46:08
Speaker 1
And then the stories that like, I feel like the stories, the student, you know, alumni stories, success stories that you tell about yourself, like nobody, nobody else can claim those same stories, you know? And so those those are the things that that resonate with people. And those are always going to be, you know, somewhat different. The the the feeling about the institution might be the same.
00:24:46:08 - 00:25:08:13
Speaker 1
It might still be like, I loved it. I love the small class sizes or whatever, but if you tell a story around something that that makes what amplifies the reason that the small class sizes affected somebody, it's just so much more powerful. And then no one, no one else, no other school is claiming that story. That's just you know, that's just that one student's perspective.
00:25:09:13 - 00:25:45:06
Speaker 4
Yeah, absolutely. You know, one of the most fascinating things about the emotive power of visual storytelling is how it can literally transform our physiology. And that's one of the points of fascination that I have with storytelling while I'm still a student of visual storytelling to this day, is that when it comes to advancing a mission, when it comes to, you know, building awareness, engendering support, there's really no more valuable way to build that support than through visual storytelling.
00:25:45:19 - 00:26:12:01
Speaker 4
You recommended a book in one of your podcasts that I have to admit, I, I took you up on the recommendation and I absolutely loved it. Those stories that stick with Kendra Hall, I want to thank you for that recommendation. Just fantastic. And one of the things I love about it is that it breaks down to the physiology, the science behind storytelling and how we as humans respond on a visceral level to stories.
00:26:13:13 - 00:26:37:06
Speaker 1
Quick break here to tell you more about our video storytelling subscriptions. But first, let me sidestep and say that as you mentioned, this book, stories that Stick by Kendra Hall, Super, super great book. Go pick it up if you haven't already. And in fact, let's do this. Leave a review for this podcast writer review rating and email me John at Unveiled to HHN and tell me that you that you did that.
00:26:37:20 - 00:26:54:10
Speaker 1
And over the next week I'm going to pick one name of a person who will have to review in the last week and I will send you a copy of this book because I have an extra copy and would love to get that in your hands. And so let's let's do that. We'll do a little contest here anyways about our video storytelling subscriptions.
00:26:54:10 - 00:27:16:19
Speaker 1
Look, making even one video takes a lot of legwork and lots of steps go, go into hurting all of the cats and then you get one video out of that one story, but you don't want one story. Storytelling is an ongoing lifestyle. It's a marketing lifestyle. But in the end, imagine a world where you'd get 132 videos across a year.
00:27:16:19 - 00:27:37:13
Speaker 1
Pretty much all you had to do to get that was find the stories to tell and pass on to someone else. US unveild. Our aim is to take the friction out of telling great stories and whether you're a big school or whether you're a small liberal arts college, you can tell really compelling stories all year round and fill your content calendar with video content.
00:27:37:23 - 00:27:54:10
Speaker 1
So we're going to batch shoot a year's worth of content and then every month drip out to you one new student or alumni story along with a whole package of additional video content. So you're going to get the full length story, which is usually 2 to 3 minutes, and then you'll get a 30 and a 15 second cut down to use in various ways.
00:27:54:10 - 00:28:14:16
Speaker 1
And then eight topical videos which are, you know, just extra things that we will ask them in the interview that align with your messaging priorities. Maybe you want to talk you had them talking about scholarships or have them talk about internship opportunities, whatever we mean. We've got the student sitting here. We can ask them anything we want. And so so that's what those eight topical videos are.
00:28:14:17 - 00:28:35:11
Speaker 1
And then the icing on the cake is that we're going to give you all of that B-roll and interview footage to do whatever you want with it, have your internal video person cut it up into a million other videos forever, make it rain video content. So we're going to we're going to give you a really great foundation of polished video content that you can deploy right away.
00:28:36:01 - 00:28:53:16
Speaker 1
And then all of the raw materials that you can use to make unlimited extra stuff with. So if you want to learn more, you can go download our pricing guide at Pricing dot unveiled dot TV and you can get obviously pricing and it will have everything in it that you need to know in order to see if this is a good fit for you or not.
00:28:54:00 - 00:28:59:08
Speaker 1
All right. Back to my conversation with Raffi Der Simonian.
00:28:59:08 - 00:29:23:21
Speaker 4
Taking it back to the Harvard Business School video that we're we're talking about. You know, I remember when I saw the first edit as someone that was there, that the entire process that saw all of the interviews, you know, several days of interviews, and then seeing this final beautiful product, there's no way that you could not feel this sense of emotional impact.
00:29:24:07 - 00:29:59:13
Speaker 4
And several times throughout the video, you know, you feel the humor, you feel the tension, you feel the intensity of what it's like to be in that classroom. And that is so much more impactful when it comes to a student putting a Harvard on their wish list or considering Harvard as an institution, that they want to put their hat in the ring to apply for, then let's just say having Professor Neeley herself get up there and say, we do X, Y, Z, but actually being there and feeling it and experiencing those dynamics is such a powerful thing.
00:29:59:13 - 00:30:06:13
Speaker 4
And it's part of why I think video should be relied on more frequently as a strategy for institutions to advance their mission.
00:30:07:14 - 00:30:24:13
Speaker 1
Yeah, I love stories that stick. There's a lot of I've read a lot of storytelling books, and a lot of them are kind of like, you know, like a lot of them kind of overlap in like the science of storytelling, the things that the kind of concepts and theories that they that they talk about and what makes a good story and this and that.
00:30:24:13 - 00:30:54:16
Speaker 1
But I was the first book that I found that was like really practical to just the every day marketer that wants to move people to action and, you know, just, just how you know, our art. And I, I think I think there's a certain level of cynicism that that Kendra and I and I share about like the state of marketing where she's there's one part of the book where she was saying like, oh, she read like a water bottle or something.
00:30:54:16 - 00:30:59:06
Speaker 1
That was like, Here's our story. And then she like, read it and she's like, This is not a story. This is just.
00:31:00:09 - 00:31:00:21
Speaker 4
A waste.
00:31:00:22 - 00:31:20:08
Speaker 1
Of information. Like, let's stop using story, the word story in that way. This is what an actual story is, and this is why it matters, because an actual story is going to, you know, transport the viewer and blah, blah, blah. But yet she has a way of just bringing it down to down to earth and like a really practical level.
00:31:20:14 - 00:31:50:06
Speaker 1
One of the things I liked about the Harvard Business School video is that it's just so simple. When organizations think about creating a video, they think it has to be complicated. It has to be really, you know, cinematic and like in lights everywhere and and stuff like that. And that's just not the case. I mean, I think in a lot of cases, kind of like just a very simple approach to to video is actually more effective.
00:31:50:11 - 00:32:06:15
Speaker 1
I feel like if you were to kind of take that and make it, obviously the production value is was very good. It looked in especially cut to the interviews and stuff is like very well lit and everything. But like the classroom bureau is just kind of like it's just kind of like you're there and it's not like, it's not like trying to be anything more than more than it is.
00:32:08:03 - 00:32:16:23
Speaker 1
And I think that's that's I just love the simplicity about it. What do you what do you think struck a chord, you know, with with people?
00:32:18:00 - 00:32:41:19
Speaker 4
Yeah. I think there's a couple of things. One is I think there's this mystique around the Harvard Business School brand. Right. And I think it's safe to say Harvard is probably one of the most, if not the most well known institution around the world. So having that kind of the ability to see what it's like inside that classroom where, you know, there's something very special going on, you know, it's the best and brightest minds convened.
00:32:41:19 - 00:33:30:20
Speaker 4
I also think the notion of the Siddhartha Neeley, Professor Neeley just heard her magnetic energy and the clear passion and ability for what she's doing is to me, that was one of the things that I took away from that experience. Also, I think this notion of learning through hearing other people's perspectives and I think this is one of the things that holds the institution of higher education together as as a whole is that through these these classroom settings, you get to hear other people's perspectives that might be looking at a controversial issue through a whole different set of criteria and a whole different lens.
00:33:32:08 - 00:33:59:17
Speaker 4
So I think all these kind of variables combined. The other thing I would be remiss, John, if I didn't mention the pre-planning that went to this, a significant amount of logistics and, you know, obviously so many details and nuances to contending with because ultimately, you know, we didn't want to be too disruptive to impede on the energy that's going on in the classroom.
00:33:59:17 - 00:34:29:06
Speaker 4
And we also wanted to make sure that we were capturing it from as many angles as possible. So you'll notice, you know, different, different perspectives inside the actual classroom. Obviously, in the interview setting, there was more flexibility. But I think finally, part of what made the video such a success was the fact that you got to see the students engage in in the classroom setting in real time.
00:34:29:06 - 00:34:38:15
Speaker 4
And then you got to hear a reflection, a distillation of the experience in more of a controlled interview environment.
00:34:38:15 - 00:34:42:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah. How was it distributed in terms of after it was made?
00:34:43:06 - 00:35:25:01
Speaker 4
Yeah, good question. And I know that it was and it probably still is on the Harvard Business School, probably featured on their homepage through their social media. I would imagine also through some of their direct email outreach. I'm not exactly sure on how they deployed it, but for whatever reason, it did strike a chord with different audiences, and I think it told a story where, regardless of whether or not you are considering Harvard or even looking at schools in general, it told a compelling story that invites the audience in to take part in a dialog.
00:35:25:07 - 00:35:47:20
Speaker 4
Because the fact that it's a real scenario that, you know, these many of these graduates will go on to, you know, in theory at least, we'd be titans of industry and we different sectors of industry. So a real scenario that impacts people's lives. So I think that the gravity factor of the topic itself was compelling.
00:35:47:20 - 00:36:10:11
Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure. It's really it really it's, it's a challenge to think it's like, okay, it's you really sort of get a sense for like what kind of person am I here? Because it's like you're talking about one person's life, which in the grand scheme of, you know, a huge conglomerate business. Sure, it's depending on how you think about it, is either significant or insignificant.
00:36:11:04 - 00:36:23:10
Speaker 1
You know, it's just like so many different perspectives. I mean, like half to half the room was like, this is just part of the deal. Like this comes out of territory. The other half was like, No, that's a whole life right there that was lost. Shut it down.
00:36:24:07 - 00:36:24:13
Speaker 3
Yeah.
00:36:24:23 - 00:36:59:16
Speaker 4
Yeah, yeah. And I think one of the things Professor Neeley does really well is she she promotes a position regardless of what it is. She wants these students to take a position. And I think in that students are also encouraged to establish rationale for their positioning. So, you know, I think doing this in the classroom setting, something really powerful unfolds and you can really sense it by seeing some of these interviews and by seeing some of the footage of what unfolds inside that classroom.
00:37:00:08 - 00:37:15:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, I liked the guy. I kind of identified with the guy that she was kind of poking fun at, like who was like, Oh, I have to come over and yeah, look at the analytics and what happened were followed. And she's like, okay, but would write it down or not, Right?
00:37:15:17 - 00:37:41:04
Speaker 4
Exactly, exactly. You know, it's reminiscent of, you know, it's a political speech. Great. Like, but at the end of the day, somebody needs to make decision. And in that very difficult moment. And I think having Cynthia Carroll there in the classroom as a voice to participate in the overall discussion also adds to what makes that such a special experience.
00:37:41:12 - 00:38:07:21
Speaker 4
Clearly, not every institution, not liberal arts school, is going to be able to, you know, have something as distinctive and frankly marketable as the case method. But this goes back to an earlier thread in our conversation, which is that there are still stories to be told within the classroom, even if it's not, you know, something that's distinctive as this particular teaching method.
00:38:08:23 - 00:38:38:07
Speaker 4
So I think that's, you know, our job as storytellers, as higher ed marketing communications advancement administrators is to help identify what these stories are and to tell them in the most authentic way possible. You know, in this particular video, you should have seen the production studio, John, as a video producer yourself, you it's amazing. Literally nothing short of awe inspiring the quality of this studio.
00:38:39:16 - 00:38:59:07
Speaker 4
With that said, even, you know, you hit on something is that the classroom footage? There wasn't a highly produced feel. It was very much like what you'd expect if you were inside the classroom. So I think it's getting that that real authentic edge and tone and voice. I think that's what people respond to as viewers and audiences.
00:39:00:07 - 00:39:06:19
Speaker 1
Yeah. And I think going back to what you said about having Cynthia Carroll, that was her name.
00:39:07:09 - 00:39:07:18
Speaker 4
Yeah.
00:39:07:23 - 00:39:33:07
Speaker 1
Yeah. Having Cynthia there in the classroom. And I think even if you're a small liberal arts school or something, you know, a smaller school, you don't have the resources behind you that a Harvard does. But you probably have somebody that graduated that did something cool and maybe could turn around and say like, well, here's here's a problem that I experienced along the way that's going to be relevant to your class.
00:39:33:07 - 00:39:51:01
Speaker 1
So let's come on practice. I mean, I think you can model that, that whole approach. Every school's got somebody that is doing something cool, you know, and then can come and kind of make a sort of case, you know, whatever you call it, this case method, you know, teaching approach that.
00:39:51:23 - 00:40:17:04
Speaker 4
Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I think doing this in the field of higher education is so interesting because these are stories of transformation. These are stories of of people transcending different parts of themselves and really, you know, pursuing opportunity. And I think those stories are just so compelling and they feel good to tell. They feel good to hear.
00:40:17:14 - 00:40:53:17
Speaker 4
And it underscores the reason why education is the most important tool change the world. That's I have that belief. And I think that even simple individual stories of people transcending, a situation or navigating a challenge or bettering themselves to improve their situation or family situation, there's something so deeply powerful about that. And it creates for just some really compelling storytelling fodder that you don't have to dig too deep to find these stories, I think.
00:40:54:01 - 00:41:08:02
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. So thinking about the marketing team that, you know, a marketing person that from a school that might be listening to this, what, what are some takeaways that that you would suggest? What can schools learn from the contents of this video?
00:41:09:05 - 00:41:38:00
Speaker 4
Sure. Well, I think one of the first things is the choosing the right stories to tell. I think clearly for Harvard, for the MBA program, taking students inside this classroom, it does a great job of explaining something that sets them apart. So I think asking yourself, what is it that sets my institution apart? What are some of the key evidence points that delineates us?
00:41:38:06 - 00:42:06:22
Speaker 4
What are some of the key examples of students, faculty, alumni that are living our mission, our core values to some extent? Also, I want to the power of collaboration, and this is a theme that we touched on earlier. But I think in this particular instance, I mean, let's face it, Harvard has all the resources to do this, but they brought us in to create something greater than the sum of the parts that they would have been able to do just with their existing staffing structure.
00:42:07:05 - 00:42:44:00
Speaker 4
So we got to work as an extension of their team to produce some extra to provide some extra production muscle. And the end result, I think, demonstrates that if done effectively, you know, the results of collaboration far exceed that of trying to do everything yourself in-house. Every school has different staff and dynamics with video and this is something that we've discussed before, John, and I think there is different models for video companies, video professionals such as ourselves to come in and help.
00:42:44:09 - 00:43:15:10
Speaker 4
There is, you know, in this instance, Harvard Business School had someone who was so talented at post-production and pre-production, she could have done the whole thing herself. However, realistically, it would have been impossible based on the vision itself. So just I would say, finding out what that collaboration point is, finding out where the need is, and not being afraid to form those partnerships with the objective of doing something better that then we could do on our own.
00:43:16:18 - 00:43:43:13
Speaker 4
And finally, I'll just say, I think planning, planning, planning, planning, this is something that I feel like you can derive so much more value from your video investment with the proper amount of pre-production, planning, communicating with key stakeholders in advance, giving a great deal of thought to each of the variables dynamics that are going into the production. I think that matters a lot.
00:43:43:13 - 00:44:04:22
Speaker 1
Yeah, I don't think there's been a shoot that I've that I've been on where someone didn't make the joke, Oh, we'll fix it in post, you know. You know my crew was always like, no fix it and pre like write it in the pre-production. Yeah. If it's broken, if it's broken in pre-production, it's going to be more broken in post-production.
00:44:05:10 - 00:44:46:23
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's only going to get more broken as those things as things go on. But yeah, I love that. I mean, I, I, I have so much respect for internal video videographers and internal video teams and they have so much going on. From what I've learned, you know, I've never been an internal videographer at a college before, but the ones that I've I've worked with, you know, kind of partnered with, it's been the pattern of so many departments requesting work from them and not being able to get to at all having there's a lot of day to day communications like video communication, stuff that eats up a lot of time in the schedule.
00:44:48:00 - 00:45:11:06
Speaker 1
But then there's all these bigger like bigger projects, bigger campaigns and stuff that like one, even if it's just one person, can't do everything. Yeah, you know, So it is it is good. I think that that video person should be should be really involved in the production process with a third party vendor like you guys, because I think you guys did it.
00:45:12:06 - 00:45:37:11
Speaker 1
Did it really well because, you know, likely that person is going to have something to do with the footage later and kind of warm or, you know, can sort of speak the language at least to the to the production team in a way that maybe the, you know, the director of marketing or whatever, you can't as much. So yeah, that collaboration, I think between internal and external partners is is really important.
00:45:38:08 - 00:46:12:22
Speaker 4
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. I also think it depends on the what the objective is with the video itself, if it's a strategic recruitment piece and maybe does require more, you know, have your hand in production something that looks a little bit more polished and thoughtfully produced. You know, one thing that we know for sure is that with the advent of our mobile devices that have, you know, increasingly incredible quality cameras, that there's a lot we can do without having the full production team in place.
00:46:12:22 - 00:46:19:10
Speaker 4
I think it's about knowing the difference for what the objective at hand is, and there are opportunities for both, I believe.
00:46:19:20 - 00:46:33:15
Speaker 1
Yeah, for sure. Cool. Well, it's been a great conversation. Thanks for thanks for coming on chatting with us about about this. I'm curious to know what I mean. Like is there do you want to tell anyone about like Yara? What you know more about what you guys do, how people connect with?
00:46:33:15 - 00:47:06:00
Speaker 4
Yeah, Yeah, absolutely. So we'd love to invite you to check me out on LinkedIn. So it's just the Raffi Dersimonian. And then ERIdesign.com. We publish frequently different topics of interest on our Insights blog. And also I would encourage you to, if you want to hear any feedback, you can email me at raffi@eridesign.com
00:47:07:01 - 00:47:10:13
Speaker 1
Cool. Awesome. Well, thanks so much for being here, man. I appreciate it.
00:47:11:15 - 00:47:15:18
Speaker 4
John. Great to speak with you. Thanks so much for the opportunity to connect with you today and.
00:47:16:04 - 00:47:30:12
Speaker 1
Thank you so much for listening. Three things I want to give you before you go. Number one reminder to go to pricing.unveild.tv. If you're interested in our subscriptions and download our pricing guide. Number two, if you want to take the storytelling you're already doing to the next level, I have a free resource for you.
00:47:30:12 - 00:47:50:17
Speaker 1
It's a three part framework for creating compelling student and alumni testimonials, and you can get it at unveiled DOT TV's student testimonials. And it doesn't even have to be for video. Put the framework to use in any format in which tell student outcome stories. Number three Leave a review for this podcast on Apple Podcasts app because it helps us out a ton.
00:47:51:01 - 01:00:49:18
Speaker 1
My name is John Azoni. Go connect with me on LinkedIn and in the meantime, I'll catch you on the next episode of the Higher Ed Storytelling University Podcast. Thanks.
