#60 - Hiring Videographers: Secrets to Thriving In-House and External Relationships
w/ John Azoni
Podcast Host
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SHOW NOTES
In this episode, Host John Azoni shares many tips for successful relationships with external videographers and as well as building in-house teams.
Key Takeaways:
Hire good editors who can create a compelling story and vibe that draws viewers in. Editing is where a video can fall apart, so prioritize finding videographers who are skilled editors.
Look for videographers who are collaborative partners, both creatively and logistically. They should take scheduling and coordination off your plate.
Request that the videographer provide all the B-roll footage at no extra cost. This is a good sign they want to be a true partner.
For lower budgets, look for generalist solo videographers used to doing a lot themselves. For bigger budgets and commercials, hire studios with specialized on-set roles.
When hiring in-house videographers, manage expectations and clearly define priorities. One person can't do it all. Consider outside help for marketing storytelling.
For small in-house video teams, an efficient duo is a producer/director/camera operator paired with a dedicated editor.
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Connect with John: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnazoni/
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Transcript (done with AI so only about 90% accurate):
00:00:00:10 - 00:00:22:15
John Azoni
All right. Hey, folks. So this is a shorty episode this week, solo episode. By the time this comes out to be a few weeks ago, I did a presentation at the Case Editors Forum in Washington, DC, and it was a group of magazine editors from different colleges around the country. And we were talking about video storytelling, embracing video storytelling, helping them incorporate video into their print work.
00:00:23:12 - 00:00:44:01
John Azoni
And in their editorial, you know, stuff. So I gave this presentation and got to the part about working with videographers, and I was kind of running out of time. So I wanted to I had to kind of rush through it and I wanted to spend a little more time unpacking some various aspects of working with videographers, both in-house and freelancers.
00:00:44:14 - 00:01:09:19
John Azoni
So here we go. So I have been doing video for, I mean, professionally about 14 years, if you count the little YouTube videos I was making on my MacBook in like 2006 or something like that, I guess longer. But but professionally, I have hired a lot of freelancers, a lot of talent, learned a lot by doing some things wrong.
00:01:09:19 - 00:01:29:17
John Azoni
I learned a lot by doing some things right. And I will tell you that finding the right partner that you can really you know, there's a difference between someone who can shoot video correctly, for example, or edit video correctly. You know, they can cut the stuff. They can they can set the camera settings correctly. They can light something to look good.
00:01:30:10 - 00:02:00:06
John Azoni
There's a difference between that and someone who, when you watch the work that they give you, just you breathe a sigh of relief like, oh my gosh, yes, they get it. I can trust this person. Those are two different things. There's a lot of what I would call technicians out there. There's a lot of video technicians who can technically shoot a good looking interview and they can get some good looking B-roll on some fancy, you know, gimbals and camera gear and stuff like that.
00:02:00:06 - 00:02:33:15
John Azoni
Or maybe they can do some cool transition effects in the in the editing, or they can do some cool motion graphics or, you know, they they technically, you know, can cut video together and adjust audio levels and stuff like that. There's a lot of those. There are very few true artists who can really feel the edit, feel the shoot, really have an intuition about it, really have an intuition about storytelling and creating something compelling, impactful.
00:02:33:15 - 00:03:00:05
John Azoni
So I'm going to give you some tips on that. Also going to talk about some considerations when hiring in-house staff when it comes to budgets and and what kind of roles to hire, how to treat those people, what kind of expectations to set. Stuff like that. So. So let's start with you know let's just assume that you're you're hiring outside partners for videography.
00:03:00:21 - 00:03:31:05
John Azoni
Here is my number one tip. If you take nothing else away from this, it would be hire good editors, hire a good editor. So look at someone's work from the finished product point of view and not does the footage look cool or whatever, but does the edit tell a compelling story or make you feel something? Does it create a vibe that sinks in with you?
00:03:31:06 - 00:03:49:13
John Azoni
Can you sink into the story or is stuff just distracting or is it boring? Is it does it start off really boring and continues to be boring? And you're just like, Oh my gosh, when is this 32nd video going to be over? Because it feels like we're watching this for 5 minutes. You know, those are all things you want to you want to look for.
00:03:50:05 - 00:04:14:09
John Azoni
Really like kind of it comes down to can you sink into the edit that they have produced and feel like time is not a factor, Runtime is not a factor. You're just getting lost in the story, lost in the vibe. And does it? It doesn't feel like it could be, you know, four or 5 minutes and it doesn't feel that way because you are engaged the whole time.
00:04:15:03 - 00:04:48:07
John Azoni
So that is really that is my number one tip that really carries across the board when hiring talent is look at the edit because editing is where it can all fall apart. So I did a tour of this coffee roasting company one time with some coworkers and it was just like real small batch. Like, really like they're really intense about coffee roasting and they know all this stuff and they've got all this fancy equipment and stuff like that.
00:04:48:07 - 00:05:12:19
John Azoni
So we were doing this tour and the roaster guy, I don't know, roasting technician was telling us about the science of coffee roasting and all this stuff and all this like really technical stuff. And he was showing us the different processes that the beans go through, the different stages of roasting and what that does to the flavor and what's happening in the sugars coming out and all that stuff.
00:05:12:19 - 00:05:40:23
John Azoni
And it's just very you know, it can be this very complicated, delicate process. Right. And then he said something that stuck with me. And I always think about this when it comes to hiring video. And he said, you can do all the fanciest stuff with coffee roasting. You can have all the fanciest techniques and take the most delicate care to producing the finest roasted coffee in the world.
00:05:40:23 - 00:06:07:00
John Azoni
You can source the beans from Guatemala and fair trade and blah, blah, blah. And it can have all these wonderful components and you can roast it perfectly. And then you hand that to a barista that's just going to dump hot water on the grounds and it's going to all fall apart. So it's like it almost at that point doesn't matter so much what happens in the roasting process and how much care you took.
00:06:07:11 - 00:06:29:06
John Azoni
It can all fall apart in the brewing process and it really you have to pair a quality coffee roaster with someone that knows what they're doing with those coffee beans and knows how to draw out the most flavor. Now I know nothing about that when I brew coffee. It's not a scientific process for me. I've not been formally trained on how to brew coffee.
00:06:29:11 - 00:06:52:09
John Azoni
I don't know anything that goes into it. I know that there's beans and you could grind them up to varying levels of fineness or roughness or whatever, and you can pour hot water on them in various different ways and then you get coffee. So that's, that's about where my knowledge of coffee ends. I generally like coffee a little bit.
00:06:52:09 - 00:07:15:19
John Azoni
I find that it tastes better if you do a if whenever I do a French press, there's just some an extra richness about it. I feel like I don't know why. I don't know the science behind it, but I tend to gravitate from making coffee at home towards French press and I'm probably just ruining some coffee roasters Magic arts.
00:07:15:19 - 00:07:41:01
John Azoni
I am probably not the one they want to hand their work off to, to brew coffee for myself. So but you know, it works for me. But that's how I think of editing. And ever since he said that, I have thought about that in terms of, Look, that's exactly how I think about videography. You could hire the most world famous cinematographer or director.
00:07:41:02 - 00:08:05:18
John Azoni
You can have Steven Spielberg make this movie for year, this this college marketing video for you. Let's say you somehow had the budget to have Steven Spielberg make a college marketing video for you and you get like Morgan Freeman to be the narrator and you got like Tom Cruise. And I don't know who who are some famous actors these days?
00:08:05:18 - 00:08:32:13
John Azoni
I don't watch a whole lot of movies, so I don't know. Kevin Costner from Yellowstone, That's more my my speed. But but you could get the top talent. But let's just focus on Steven Spielberg here. He's he's the filmmaker. You could get Steven Spielberg to make you a great marketing video, right? And then you hand that to someone that's more of like an editing technician and that could be such a boring video, right?
00:08:32:13 - 00:08:56:03
John Azoni
Like, it could just it can all fall apart in the edit. And so that's why I think you need to work backwards from the edit. So to me, so much art happens in the editing process. Um, that, that really you can start there and go like, does this person know how to edit well and because if they do, they're probably going to be a good director.
00:08:56:11 - 00:09:16:22
John Azoni
The filmmaking techniques, all that stuff can be learned, how to light, how to do audio, all that stuff like that. But like editing is such an intuition and you really want someone who has that intuition working with your brand because you want that process to be a collaborative process and you don't want to have to hire someone that you've got to.
00:09:17:07 - 00:09:39:07
John Azoni
You have to tell them every button to push in, every thing to point the camera at and everything like that. Like you want them to just catch the vision and bring you a product that just makes you feel like, Wow, like I could not have done this on my own. And this just accurately reflects all the emotions that I want someone to feel when they watch this.
00:09:39:07 - 00:10:07:11
John Azoni
I'm an inspired, I'm inspired, and and I can sink into this story and it kind of transports me. And I don't feel like it's long. I feel like time is kind of moving by fast or whatever, watching this. So so those are things that that then you can work backwards from because when someone is a good editor and then they're on set and they're directing a shoot or they're doing the shoot, you know, they're running the camera themselves, they know what they want in the edits or what to give an editor.
00:10:07:11 - 00:10:30:15
John Azoni
If they have a if they have a separate editor, they they think like an editor and you want someone filming that is thinking like an editor because that is like the crux of the project is is the edit. You want someone to be running this interview that's going to be listening to their responses and going, Oh, did I get a complete thought?
00:10:31:08 - 00:10:53:23
John Azoni
Can't will that statement hold up in the edit or do I have to get them to restate it maybe a different way? Am I getting enough of the right shots? Am I getting enough to establish a scene and then really tell the story within that scene? You know, because that's what you need for the edit is you need kind of a well-rounded set of B-roll that's going to give you a comprehensive view of the story that you're telling.
00:10:53:23 - 00:11:18:20
John Azoni
So someone that's good at editing is going to think like an editor when they're shooting, when they're lighting, when they're lighting something, they're going to be trying to capture the mood of what they want for the edit. So all of this stuff, it all centers around the edit. Bottom line, if you take anything away from this episode, it's look at the editing quality of their work, secondary to that would be, you know, does it feel cinematic and things like that.
00:11:18:20 - 00:11:44:16
John Azoni
There's a lot of people that can get good cinematic footage, but that's like that's not what persuades someone to go to your school. How you make them feel is what persuade them to go to your school. So okay, so that's point number one. This next part comes into play when when hiring anyone in what I mentioned before is like, you want to hire someone that is just like it's like this sigh of relief, right?
00:11:44:16 - 00:12:09:07
John Azoni
Like I've hired a lot of editors before where I wish I had just done it myself by the time I get, you know, a couple rounds of revisions and I'm just like, this is just an uphill battle and this feels like more work. Like I outsourced a project so that it could make my life easier. And here I am basically like pulling teeth to get it how I want it.
00:12:09:17 - 00:12:30:06
John Azoni
And that can come into play. When you are working on a logistical level with with a video company. So that can come into play creatively. So, you know, like I said, you know, those are the creative things to look for. You know, it all kind of centers around the edit, but then making a video is a logistically complicated process, right?
00:12:30:15 - 00:12:51:06
John Azoni
So there's a lot of scheduling and a lot of coordinating and a lot of creative concept thing that has to happen. And then out of that creative concept, it's like, okay, well how are we going to make that happen? You know? So I had a, a friend of mine call me up and her church was doing a video for some series.
00:12:51:06 - 00:13:10:01
John Azoni
I can't remember what it was. It was like something about like moms or something like that. And, and she wanted to do this sort of like, narrative thing of like mom driving the kids to hockey practice. And she had this whole, like, narrative idea. And in her mind, she was like, that's the simplest way to do it. Because, like, here's the story.
00:13:10:01 - 00:13:37:11
John Azoni
We just filmed those scenes and that's easy. But in my mind I was like, Actually, that's more complicated because who's the mom going to be? Who are the kids going to be? Who has hockey stuff that we can borrow? We got to get the props. Whose car are we going to use? And then, you know, there are a bunch of other logistical components like it seems like, you know, I'm just saying this and you could use like, okay, we'll just hire a mom with a few kids of her own and grab some hockey equipment and she'll just drive her own car.
00:13:38:03 - 00:14:00:11
John Azoni
There were some other logistical components in here that because there was like some other scenes, too. But but you really have to go like, okay, well, where is this? This, this, this and this? Everything that is in that shot has a logistical task associated with it. And so when you're making a video, there are a lot of these logistical components, even like a documentary style video.
00:14:00:11 - 00:14:23:03
John Azoni
So let's say you're doing a student story and the student is a business school student and they went to your school and they had a great class experience and they loved their professors and they loved the community that they developed there and so many friends and the dorm life and whatever. And now they've got this great job and they're doing all this cool business stuff.
00:14:23:03 - 00:14:44:16
John Azoni
Well, let's unpack that, because in order to tell that story, first of all, you have to find the person that that's going to be the subject of this video. But then they're talking about classroom experience. Can you get into a classroom? When can you get into a classroom? Can you get into one of her classes? Can you get into one of her classes on the day that you have her scheduled to shoot?
00:14:45:10 - 00:15:05:23
John Azoni
Are you going to have to get permission for that? Do you have to get, I don't know, waiver? Whatever media releases, whatever sign from everyone in that classroom. So that's just getting one classroom shot. And then she's talking about having close relationship with the professors. So do you. Okay. Well, do you really need to schedule or do you need to wait till class ends and then get this this her working with this professor?
00:15:06:00 - 00:15:22:10
John Azoni
Okay. So now she's talking about student life and stuff like that. So. Well, there's no one on campus at this point in the day when you're going to shoot the student life thing. So how are you going? So now we got to get volunteers. We got to set up a scene or they're like sitting around drinking coffee or something like that.
00:15:22:19 - 00:15:56:15
John Azoni
You know, a lot of campuses that that we film at are actually not these like, really populated like people sitting out in the quad and there's like, you know, there's like, you know, just people walking about and and drinking coffee and talking and laughing and sitting under trees and stuff like that. It's it's often, you know, a lot of it's maybe a smaller, smaller colleges or sub schools of the larger college where it's that's not really the campus life experience, at least not at that time of day or it's not like that all the time.
00:15:57:11 - 00:16:12:16
John Azoni
So it's you can't just like show up on campus at any given time and there will just be like all these amazing opportunities to shoot student life. So again, like, you'd have to fake some sort of scene like that. You got to get the volunteers to be in that shot. And then it's like, okay, well, where are they going to get the coffee?
00:16:12:16 - 00:16:32:21
John Azoni
So now we got to get coffee and then she works somewhere, so we got to get permission to get into the to get into the building. And then now these are people that don't have media releases signed automatically from the school. So it's in order to like really show the robustness of her job and stuff like that. Now we got to coordinate with all these strangers and yada yada, yada, yada.
00:16:32:23 - 00:16:59:19
John Azoni
So like, there's all this stuff, like to just make what you would think is like a simple video, takes a lot of logistical planning, and you, as the marketing director, do not want to have to be the one that's doing all that coordinating right now. Not every video is that complicated. You know, when we work with schools, we try to we try to pick stories that are going to be simpler to produce in a more compressed amount of time.
00:17:00:02 - 00:17:25:02
John Azoni
But regardless, there are those scheduling logistics. Or what about trying to get you know, interviews with multiple people. So now you're scheduling multiple calendars to try to get them into these back to back slots on the same day, because you can't just have well, if you have an internal videographers, probably fine. But like if you're hiring an external person, you're paying them for the day and you can't just like have them all come on.
00:17:25:02 - 00:17:42:20
John Azoni
You know, if you have three separate interviews, it can be super expensive to have them come on three separate days when everyone feels like they're available. So all those all those things and you you want to work with a company that's going to realize that that is a pain in the butt for the client to do scheduling and coordinating all that stuff.
00:17:42:20 - 00:18:08:15
John Azoni
It's it's herding cats and you want to partner with a videographer who is going to take those logistics off your hands because there's nothing worse than paying a premium. And here I'm assuming that you're hiring outside help here, you're hiring an outside partner. There's nothing worse than paying a premium for a really great quality video and outsourcing like the point of outsourcing, is that you're not doing the work.
00:18:08:15 - 00:18:26:00
John Azoni
You're paying the money for someone else to do the work. There's nothing worse than paying a premium and then doing the grunt work yourself. But but the main school of thought really is that like you hire the video company. The video company will show up with the cameras and, you know, they'll help with the creative direction and things like that and maybe help with the interview questions.
00:18:26:09 - 00:18:49:14
John Azoni
But they don't know your your campus. They don't know your professors, your students, all this stuff. So, like, you got to coordinate all your people. You know, you've got to coordinate volunteers and see places where, you know, locations for where we're going to shoot this interview. And so you want to at least partner with someone that has their eyes on not wanting that to be a stressful process for you.
00:18:49:14 - 00:19:12:09
John Azoni
The client there is always going to be some work. You're never going to hand a video project off to a stranger. And then magically this amazing video appears that that just completely meets all your brand standards and captures all the right emotions. And you didn't have to sit in a single meeting or send a single email or get a single bit of approval from anybody.
00:19:12:09 - 00:19:45:16
John Azoni
It just Mary Poppins into your lap. So that's not possible, right? Like there's no one that you're going to work with where at least not an outside company to outsource to you that that's going to happen. But you really want to work with a partner that's going to take those logistics off your plate and really play the video producer role, not just the video technician role, not just showing up with the cameras to make your idea come to life, but really partnering with you on your idea both creatively and logistically.
00:19:45:16 - 00:20:13:17
John Azoni
So that's that's kind of the logistical and the creative prep component to hiring to what to look for in a videographer that you're working with that you're outsourcing to. And then the other thing would be B-roll. So again, the school of thought in this goes for like photography, this goes for video. Is that the raw footage? In the case of photography, raw pictures are off limits unless you pay extra money for them.
00:20:13:17 - 00:20:49:15
John Azoni
It's called full buyout. When you do a project with, say, a video company and then you get all the footage, if you're doing full buyout, you're buying all the rights to the footage to use however you want and you're owning, you're taking over the copyright. But for schools, I really suggest working with a videographer that is going to give you the footage at no extra cost, because when they say that the B-roll costs extra, to me, that's a red flag that says there are other areas in their workflow where they might nickel and dime you.
00:20:50:03 - 00:21:17:09
John Azoni
And so I, I really feel like the B-roll giving the B-roll away is a really good green flag of saying this organization, this video company has your best interest in mind and they want to be an extension of your marketing team and work for your marketing team's success. To have all the footage, to build a footage library, to do whatever they do, whatever whatever you want with it, without any additional costs down the road.
00:21:18:00 - 00:21:36:14
John Azoni
That to me just says Good partner, someone that's going to make you pay thousands of dollars just to get the raw footage that they're never going to use. They're never going to use that for anything. I don't get it. They're never going to use it. They can't sell it on stock sites because they probably don't have permission from the people in the videos to begin with.
00:21:37:01 - 00:21:58:09
John Azoni
So it's just going to sit on a hard drive. Why not let you, the client, get more use out of it and then want to come back and hire you to continue building that B-roll library and doing more projects together? But it's always like this fear based thing of like, well, if we give them the footage, then they won't come back to hire us, you know, then we're just putting ourselves out of a job and that's silly.
00:21:59:00 - 00:22:22:00
John Azoni
That's really never been the case for me in my in my career. You know, the clients that I've worked with through Unveiled and through a previous production company that I worked with always came back and they came back more. When you just support them with giving them the B-roll, the next consideration is budgets. So if you have a lower budget, you're going to want to look for a solo freelancer or someone that's a generalist.
00:22:22:00 - 00:22:53:09
John Azoni
So there's kind of two schools of thought, like if you're working with someone who really kind of came up in the film school environment, in my experience, it's likely that they're going to have a very traditional set on set expectations where it's like, you know, there's a producer, a separate producer, separate director, separate DP, or which is another way of saying cinematographer, the person that's like making everything look good, an audio technician, a gaffer that's a gaffer, is someone that does all the lighting grips.
00:22:53:09 - 00:23:19:21
John Azoni
Grips are people that are moving systems around and things like that. And you'll come across some companies, a lot of them that are like, Oh, you want to shoot an interview that's easily $30,000 project because we got to hire eight people. And I'm like, What in what world does it take eight people to shoot an interview? And I guess to me that's like I came up in the wedding world where like, you had to like, you know, filming a wedding.
00:23:19:21 - 00:23:36:22
John Azoni
You had to get creative shots, you had to direct a little bit. You kind of had to think with the edit in mind, so you had to know where to stand, where, where you're going to get creative shots, how you're going to direct the the couple. Sometimes what you're doing, like the photo session when when they're looking to you to like, get some really cool shots of us, you know, and then you got to do all the audio.
00:23:37:15 - 00:23:58:06
John Azoni
You got to be the problem solver. You got to carry all the gear from location to location on the wedding day. That's just what I'm used to. I hired this company out in California for this for this college thing once. This was in my previous job and it was like this for the Education Department of this this one school.
00:23:58:06 - 00:24:22:02
John Azoni
And they're having this sort of remote deep dive workshop on like pedagogies, like how to how to teach. And so it was like this three day deep dive thing with all these teachers who were doing this professional development thing with this like world renowned educational leader and so down California. So for budget reasons, I was like, Well, let's find a local crew.
00:24:22:14 - 00:24:56:22
John Azoni
I hired this crew. They were like, Man, we really need a sound technician. And like, you know, some other assistants or whatever, like, this is just not a simple project. In my mind. It was super simple. It was just, you know, manage the audio by putting microphones in key places around the room, make up the educational leader that was going to be doing most of the talking, and then film this multi-camera like, you know, have multiple cameras, have a couple of camera operators and bingo, bango like that's, that's how we would film an event.
00:24:56:22 - 00:25:15:11
John Azoni
That's how, you know, we would film a lot of things like that where there's just something happening and you're just following the action. You just set it up so that you can then just follow the action and not have to worry about every little compartment of this shoot, like the audio, all the equipment and managing the lighting and all this stuff like that.
00:25:15:11 - 00:25:41:23
John Azoni
And so anyways, we kind of convinced them to do this with like two people and the work was God awful. It was like, again, this was at my previous company. So these two guys that did this, they set the camera settings all wrong because they, they said they were so distracted by like having to manage the audio or something like that and they set the camera settings wrong.
00:25:41:23 - 00:26:05:16
John Azoni
And then one of the cameras was like completely out of focus for the whole three days. And they didn't fix it. I don't know why. So apparently we gave them too hard of a job to manage this, what seemed like a simple shoot to me. So anyways, not everyone thinks like that. There are schools of people who are like, No, we have to have separate compartmentalized, you know, sort of departments on set here.
00:26:05:21 - 00:26:36:07
John Azoni
And then there are other people that are like, We can knock this out. So you just have to find those people that are the generalists that kind of maybe kind of came up in a documentary style like Running Gun sort of sort of approach, or those tend to be the types that you can get, you know, to do more with less if you have higher budgets, if you're doing a big commercial, something like that, definitely, definitely hire a studio that's going to produce this thing with separate on set roles because a commercial is just a different beast.
00:26:36:07 - 00:27:10:16
John Azoni
You're working with a high end cameras, which like, you know, then you're working with cinema lenses, which is just a whole separate like workflow. They're heavier cameras, so you can't just kind of like run around with them. You got, you need like special equipment, you need people that manage that equipment. They need people to direct talent to, you know, or lunch, you know, there's just like more stuff that happens on a commercial shoot that needs multiple people, set decorators, art directors, things like that work with the company that will do that and hire those kind of traditional roles and do it, quote unquote.
00:27:10:16 - 00:27:27:16
John Azoni
Right. But if you have lower budgets, you're just not going to be able to afford a studio that's really thinking in that traditional set way. So that's a red flag. If they're really looking for they need to charge you a bunch of money to do something very simple, like shoot an interview or something like that. That's a red flag.
00:27:28:07 - 00:27:56:00
John Azoni
But if they are kind of like more of a one man band kind of thing, that's an indication that they're used to doing, handling a lot of roles on set and working in small groups. Okay, So now we're talking about hiring in-house talent. So here's the thing that I hear a lot from videographers, and I heard it from a couple of people after I gave this presentation at the Case Editors Forum is that their videographers are stressed out.
00:27:56:16 - 00:28:19:10
John Azoni
The expectations are too high for one person. Let me explain the concept then I'll explain the result from from the presentation. So really, one person can't do it all just because you're saying, okay, we're going to embrace this video marketing thing, we're going to hire a videographer, you know, And so we've hired a guy that we feel really confident with or a woman.
00:28:19:10 - 00:28:40:05
John Azoni
And and so now we've checked the box videographer. So all the video requests anyone has now we've got someone on staff that can handle those. And so let the floodgates open. So the president's going to start asking for stuff and the dean is going to ask for stuff. And, you know, the School of Nursing is going to want a promo video and the hockey team is going to want a promo video.
00:28:40:05 - 00:29:03:19
John Azoni
And and all these requests are going to start coming in. And what's going to happen is that person is a bogged down period. And the video coordinating is, you know, like your idea of just like, oh, it's a real simple video. Like it should just be quick, right? Probably will take a couple of weeks, you know, to flesh out and produce and edit and deliver.
00:29:04:09 - 00:29:28:17
John Azoni
So what ends up happening is, you know, then that videographer gets bogged down with all the stuff that's yelling the loudest, like what's on fire that needs a video. And our internal guys are going to handle that. What happens then to all the stuff, the storytelling, the commercial work, the thought leadership stuff, the course promo stuff, all the stuff that's like forward pushing.
00:29:28:17 - 00:29:52:14
John Azoni
That's like really going to be beneficial for enrolling prospective students. What's going to happen to that when all these people are just clamoring at this one videographer to do all this internal comms stuff? So you really have to define the expectations. Do you want this person to do internal comms? Then make sure that you still hire outside help budget for both.
00:29:52:14 - 00:30:18:16
John Azoni
Don't just think that because you hired a videographer, now your whole college, everyone's going to get videos for it. You get a video and you get a video and you get a video. It's just not going to work like that or it's going to work like that for a minute. And then that person's going to leave because the expectations are too high and everyone wants their video fast and no one wants to slow down and think about how this video serves the mission of the college.
00:30:19:00 - 00:30:41:05
John Azoni
How are we going to do the message People just want? Just go, just shoot. Like just shoot it and let's figure it out later. We'll figure out an edit, like it's just a simple video. We don't have to overthink this. No, no, no. You got to think about it like you have to be intentional with with video. So really, like from an output perspective, lower your expectations or very clearly define those priorities.
00:30:41:05 - 00:31:14:02
John Azoni
Do you want this person to do internal comms? Then build the request system and build their workflow around handling internal clients internal comms work. If you want them to do more outward facing stuff, then you know, involve them in the strategy meetings, involve them in the creative direction, meetings involve them from Square Zero, you know, from the very start of someone thinking about this project because they're going to have opinions, they're going to be able to be the one that's executing it.
00:31:14:12 - 00:31:31:00
John Azoni
And so don't just bring them in to execute a bad idea, you know, because what happens is like the marketing team will think of what they think is a great idea and they'll say, the videographer, Hey, come do this. And the videographer the whole time is like, This is dumb. Like, this is not going to work. No one's going to like this.
00:31:31:00 - 00:32:09:04
John Azoni
It's boring. And your videographer knows a lot about what makes something compelling. You need to involve them in the creative direction from the very get go. I'm going on all kinds of tangents here. I just get very passionate about this because I don't think people realize all the talent that that goes into making a video happen and how much input that person should have and how much they know about messaging and understand messaging and storytelling and things that you might think are only exclusive to the, you know, the marketing team, the marketing team has the messaging and the strategy under control.
00:32:09:04 - 00:32:51:01
John Azoni
We don't need anyone else's input, but you should get the input of the people that are working on it. And I say that because you also have to include that in your expectations of prep work. You know, that adds to that lowers the output, increases the quality of the final product. But that's why I say like if you're having someone do like the more forward pushing marketing storytelling work, you should really have them be focusing on quality, involving them from the very start, not running them into the ground with videos that they would deem from their expertise as boring and on engaging in a waste of time because you don't want a videographer working on
00:32:51:01 - 00:33:12:16
John Azoni
something that they know from the get go is going to be ineffective like it would be like if you're the marketing director and you're president or your CMO says, Do your job this way, and then you know that that's a dumb idea. Like it's not going to inspire anybody. It's not going to help prospective students, you know, want to enroll.
00:33:12:16 - 00:33:38:23
John Azoni
And yet you just are given this thing to execute it. And it's so demoralizing, right? So when you involve your videographer from the get go, you're going to increase quality, you're going to decrease output and embrace that. If you want someone to just be a machine of like a video technician, that's totally cool. That's why it's like great for internal comms stuff, because it's like the comms people have come up with the messaging.
00:33:39:09 - 00:33:53:07
John Azoni
It's not so much about marketing as it is just like getting this message across in a clear way so it becomes more like, Let's make this look good. Let's make the president look good when he's saying this thing. Let's help him say it in a way that sounds natural and not, you know, reading off a script and stuff like that.
00:33:53:07 - 00:34:27:06
John Azoni
And let's crank these out so that's a little different. So define those priorities and lower your output expectations accordingly and still consider outside help. Because like I said, a lot of videographers internally, you know, for better or for worse, they end up doing whatever yells the loudest and the forward pushing stuff, the storytelling, the marketing stuff, the thought leadership stuff, the commercials, those things tend to sit on the back burner while this videographers just kind of spinning wheels doing what everyone else wants.
00:34:27:20 - 00:34:44:20
John Azoni
So I mentioned the Case Editors Forum, this presentation that I gave, and I had one person ask the question in you at the end of the Q&A and then one another person reach out to me directly. But both people said that, like, you know, they realized things from what I was saying, that they realize why their videographer left.
00:34:44:20 - 00:35:07:11
John Azoni
And I just thought that that was super, super interesting. You know, And the person that the person that raised her hand in the Q&A, she said, my videographer was telling me this stuff, too. They were telling me that they were overextended. They're doing too much. They didn't have the time to do the volume of work that was being given to them and whatever else.
00:35:07:11 - 00:35:29:11
John Azoni
But she said, you know, they told me this stuff and I didn't listen. And now I know why they left. And so I would love both for you to avoid that and for your videographer to avoid that. So it really should be a happy it's a wonderful job. It's a wonderful job to be able to wake up every day and get paid to create, to make videos and stuff like that.
00:35:29:17 - 00:35:50:09
John Azoni
Let's keep it in that realm of like this is enjoyable and I'm using my creative brain and I'm given ample time to do the things that I'm supposed to do. I'm not given unrealistic deadlines, yadda, yadda, all that stuff that goes into employee happiness. So. So yeah, I just thought it was interesting that there was a couple of people that were like, Yeah, my videographer left and now I know why.
00:35:51:02 - 00:36:15:21
John Azoni
So one person can't do it all, number one. Number two, still consider outside help. Number three, if you have the budget for more than one internal staff member, so say you're maybe building something like a team from experience, a good sort of, you know, cost efficient but still powerhouse duo would be a producer, director shooter or camera operator.
00:36:15:21 - 00:36:40:05
John Azoni
That's all one person. So someone that's going to coordinate the shoots creatively, concepts them, coordinate them and film them and light them and do the audio, all that stuff. So someone that's going to execute the the shooting and then a separate editor who is day after day cranking out the post-production because that is a lot of work. So if you're having one person do both of those, you're going to get about 50% of the output, right?
00:36:40:05 - 00:37:03:20
John Azoni
Because that person is going to be editing a lot of the time, like probably most of the time, because that's where a lot of the tedious work happens. But if you can siphon that off into a solo editor and then let the other person go do the shooting, you have a very pretty good working relationship there that can increase output without having to really have this like giant, robust team.
00:37:04:16 - 00:37:47:15
John Azoni
Okay, So those are my considerations. And now I want to just give a plug for the V one. So the V one is my community for in-house higher ed videographers. It's a fairly new thing. It's been happening and growing for a few months now. Right now it's a monthly newsletter that we send out to people who have signed up, who are in-house staff on at colleges, and it's content that is meant to help inform them on the latest things like a I how I is affecting editing and filmmaking, and how I can help increase productivity and increase efficiency in editing workflows and things like that.
00:37:48:00 - 00:38:10:18
John Azoni
It's about creative concepts. It's about how to create videos that have strong hooks that really suck people in and make them want to watch the whole thing. It's conversations with other internal in-house videographers on the challenges that they face and how they're overcoming them. So, for example, we talked to a videographer from a particular college on navigating creative challenges with internal clients.
00:38:10:18 - 00:38:32:20
John Azoni
So when different departments are asking for things, but, you know, and they don't really know, like all the creative decision making that should go into making that request effective for their needs. How do we overcome those challenges as internal staff that wants to be the yes. Sayers We don't want to be the no. The people are saying, Oh, we can't do this.
00:38:33:02 - 00:38:54:05
John Azoni
We want to be a saying, yes, that's a great idea and here's how we can make this better. So we talked about that with him. We talk about basics like frame rates, lighting, audio, all these things that like maybe you just have someone on staff that was like the social media coordinator or something like that. And they learned a little bit about video, but now you're trying to move them into like a full time video role.
00:38:54:05 - 00:39:24:12
John Azoni
Well, let's get that person trained up in how to master these sort of cinema concepts, these concepts of how do you get cinematic work and really high quality work with the gear that you have on hand or the gear that you might need? We do talk about gear. We talk about what's gear that's cost effective, that's going to help you do a lot with less and that's going to help you create in the most efficient best way possible.
00:39:24:23 - 00:39:49:20
John Azoni
So we talk about that second step anyway, a lot of stuff we support in-house videographers at colleges. You can reach out to me at John at unveiled that TV it's J and unveiled is unveiled. If you want to get your team signed up. It's kind of like an invite only thing because we want to make sure that this is people in this community that are active videographers, you know, working with colleges, not just random people that want to learn video stuff.
00:39:49:20 - 00:40:13:21
John Azoni
So reach out to me, introduce me to your team, and we will get them in the mix. So those are my tips on how to work with videographers, both external partners and hiring in-house talents. If you're any questions, reach out to me or just you know go on unveiled that TV and you know do the thing that you know how to do which is find the contact form whatever your smart you know where to find me so all right thanks.
