Podcast episode #10 - The Enrollment Cliff, Clarifying Your Message and Leading With Storytelling - With Dr. Carrie Phillips, CMO at University of Arkansas - Little Rock
Show Notes:
Verbatim text version of this episode is below for those that prefer to read. Made by a robot so probably only 80% accurate.
Links:
-More info on storytelling subscriptions on our website: unveild.tv
-Download "3 Absolutely Crucial Components Every Compelling College Student/Alumni Testimonial Needs"
Andrea Vargas' Story: https://youtu.be/azljMxj2LX8
Josie Efird's Story: https://youtu.be/9WdTpOXHNDc
Connect with Dr. Carrie Phillips:
Linkedin
Twitter
Website
00;00;00;14 - 00;00;33;27
Speaker 1
Well, folks, we've got this big ol enrollment drop off coming, as I'm quite sure you've heard about. If you haven't heard. Keep listening as we dig into what that's about. So what can you do now to mitigate the effects of this, quote, enrollment cliff? From where you sit in the marketing department? I'll give you a hint. It comes down to the importance of branding, clarifying your school's message and telling human stories that allow others to see behind the curtain of someone's experience with your school so they can relate to that story on an emotional level.
00;00;33;29 - 00;01;04;14
Speaker 1
And I didn't just make that up. That's the opinion of our guest today, Dr. Carrie Phillips, CMO of University of Arkansas, Little Rock. Hey, welcome to the Higher Ed Storytelling University Podcast, a podcast dedicated to helping higher ed marketers tell better stories and enroll more students. My name is John Azoni. I'm the founder at UNVEILD, a video production company working specifically with college marketing teams on automating their video storytelling content through a subscription approach.
00;01;05;01 - 00;01;26;18
Speaker 1
If putting your school's storytelling efforts on autopilot is something that would interest you, you can learn more at unveild.tv. That's U-N-V-E-I-L-D dot TV. If you're listening to this podcast for the first time, go ahead and subscribe. And if you've been listening for a while now and haven't left a review, I'd love for you to go ahead and break the seal and do that.
00;01;26;18 - 00;01;51;12
Speaker 1
It helps me continue to produce this content by helping others to find it in the first place. And do you know how many snacks my kids eat in a day? I have a seven and a five year old. Someone's got to pay for all these veggie straws, folks. My guest today is none other than University of Arkansas. Little Rock's CMO, Dr. Carrie Phillips, whose whole dissertation for her Ph.D. was centered around marketing strategies to address the predicted enrollment cliff.
00;01;51;17 - 00;02;05;06
Speaker 1
I think you'll really love what she has to say about what's going on at UVA, Little Rock under her leadership. So here we go. Carrie Phillips Thanks for coming on the podcast. You are the CMO of Little Rock, is that correct?
00;02;05;07 - 00;02;16;09
Speaker 2
Absolutely, yes. So excited to be here. I've been in that role right at nine months. So still new and figuring things out but really excited about it, but also excited to be here today.
00;02;16;14 - 00;02;21;22
Speaker 1
So tell me about your tell me about your background, how you got into this role in Higher Ed.
00;02;22;00 - 00;02;47;29
Speaker 2
Oh, great question. So I actually started out in television news and I worked as a producer, so I was the person behind the scenes that wrote all of the stories that the anchor and the reporters would read on the newscast. And I was the one that, you know, if something went a little long or a little short, I was the one frantically scrambling in the background to try to make sure that our hour long show was just an hour every single day.
00;02;47;29 - 00;03;19;00
Speaker 2
And so that was a lot of fun. But I found myself still drawn to doing work that mattered. And that makes a difference and had the opportunity to go back and get a master's and did that, got a masters in multimedia journalism, and then got a job as the assistant director of new media. And the institution where I was at hired me and said, you know, we know we need to be doing something, but we don't know what that is, and we're not quite sure what to do with Facebook and how video works.
00;03;19;00 - 00;03;44;27
Speaker 2
So we just need you to figure all that out. So my husband used to tell people that I got paid to play on Facebook for a living, but long and short. As you know, I stayed at Arkansas Tech for about 14 years and over time moved in that into the director role and along the way got a doctorate and last year had the opportunity to make the move to UK, Little Rock and just loving this season of life.
00;03;45;06 - 00;03;51;12
Speaker 1
Cool. That's awesome. That's quite all right. So were you the person that would like talk into the person's ear, your piece to tell them the like?
00;03;51;24 - 00;03;52;10
Speaker 2
Yes.
00;03;52;23 - 00;03;53;11
Speaker 1
Oh, man.
00;03;53;11 - 00;04;15;15
Speaker 2
I was. I was it was a fun. I have so much respect for how reporters and folks can do that because I can't talk and think about something else at the same time or that level of multitasking. And so to have somebody, you know, in your ear saying, hey, we're going to wrap this or counting you down or whatever the case, like that's just wild to me how they're able to do that.
00;04;15;15 - 00;04;31;29
Speaker 1
I would be completely incapable. I'm I'm like even on the smallest scale, incapable of having like of listening to a conversation and having a different conversation. If I'm on the phone and like one of my kids, like, knocks on the door, it's like my whole world stops. And I'm like. Like, make a choice.
00;04;32;10 - 00;04;39;25
Speaker 2
I definitely understand, though, why they say you have to be short and sweet about what you say, but yeah, mad props to people that can do that.
00;04;39;25 - 00;04;50;22
Speaker 1
Awesome. So what inspired you to get? Well, first of all, I. So you got your Ph.D. in. Tell me, what was the. It was it was enrollment And tell me about that. Like what was the title of it?
00;04;50;22 - 00;05;17;16
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I went to Texas Tech University and I have an ADT there in Higher Education Administration. And so this program specifically was started with the idea that we need more administrators with terminal degrees. So kind of a really cool program and a cool concept. It's a cohort model. And so I started with the same group of 15 people and we went all the way through together.
00;05;17;22 - 00;05;36;19
Speaker 2
So I love that because you have folks that in all aspects of higher ed, but you become really close to those folks. So now when I have a question about something related to the registrar's office and how records and registration and all of that works, I have somebody that I can pick up the phone and call and ask.
00;05;37;00 - 00;05;55;15
Speaker 2
So it's a really cool model that is part of it. We get to pick a dissertation topic and so I knew I was interested in enrollment at Arkansas Tech. I worked really closely with our enrollment team and so I knew that was something that I was interested in. And so I was trying to figure out how to pare that interest.
00;05;55;22 - 00;06;10;17
Speaker 2
But then I love my my role in the marketing landscape. And so how to pair those two together and came up with what I think is a pretty interesting topic. And I was looking at for my dissertation how marketing might be able to be used to help mitigate the enrollment cliff.
00;06;11;10 - 00;06;20;00
Speaker 1
Yeah, so what I know that everyone listening to this probably has heard of the enrollment cliff, but in case there's someone that hasn't what what is that about?
00;06;20;01 - 00;06;48;06
Speaker 2
Great question. So high level if you go back in 2007, 2008, the birth rate declined as we were in the Great Recession. And so if you fast forward to that now and you look at the data, that number is there are between 350 and 400,000 fewer traditional age college students that will start graduating in 2027, moving all the way up to that 2037.
00;06;48;06 - 00;07;06;08
Speaker 2
So from 2025 to 2037, we're going to see this massive drop off in traditional students. And that at the same time is coupled with a demographic change. So we're going to see a lot more students who are maybe first generation who are coming of age in this country and really wanting to explore higher education that maybe haven't before.
00;07;06;16 - 00;07;26;18
Speaker 2
And so the data says that those folks are going to need some additional support to graduate. So not only is are we getting to the point that there are fewer students at that traditional age, but the student themselves is changing. And so the model of higher education that's always been in existence may have to be refined and tweaked a little bit to be able to help those students graduate.
00;07;26;18 - 00;07;29;29
Speaker 2
And so all of that has kind of been termed the enrollment cliff.
00;07;30;15 - 00;07;33;09
Speaker 1
Yeah, So a lot of fear wrapped up in that.
00;07;34;10 - 00;07;57;10
Speaker 2
It is. And it's also a lot of opportunity, though, and I think that's where people sometimes missed the mark on it. Yes, the number of this traditional student is declining, but there are also opportunities you know, my grandfather only had a middle school education and so I always have this heart for this underdog, first generation student that was my dad and that was my uncle.
00;07;57;19 - 00;08;13;20
Speaker 2
And we're going to see more and more students like that that they never thought college was an option for them before. And now they're saying, wait a second, maybe it is. And so that's where I've really tried to kind of frame things for me as I talk about this, because you're right, there is a lot of fear and the numbers are staggering.
00;08;13;20 - 00;08;25;17
Speaker 2
That's going to be a part of it. But I also think the institutions that really say, hey, we want to serve these students and provide a level of option and opportunity that's never been available before. That, to me is such an exciting thing.
00;08;25;17 - 00;08;36;02
Speaker 1
Yeah. Where do you where do we get the the first generation students? Like, how does that how does this this drop off like kind of create that opportunity for those types of students?
00;08;37;14 - 00;08;58;06
Speaker 2
Great. So I think what that comes from is a couple of things. One, if you look at who which population groups and which demographic sectors are going to be growing, we see for the first time a lot more Hispanic students and students of Latino or Latina descent. And so those are students that are have maybe been in this country.
00;08;58;06 - 00;09;20;15
Speaker 2
They're first generation Americans and they haven't had that college opportunity. So I think that's part of it. But I also think part of what's happening is colleges are saying, okay, if this regular traditional student is declining, we need to look at other audiences of students. And so one of those audiences is this underserved group of students that haven't ever even thought college is an option.
00;09;20;15 - 00;09;30;12
Speaker 2
And so that's that's another group. There are also certainly other audiences that that schools are looking at, but I think that's kind of the two key places where that first generation piece comes in.
00;09;30;19 - 00;09;41;26
Speaker 1
So what? So for people listening that are marketers and they're wanting to know what like what do we do? So what was like the takeaways from your dissertation?
00;09;42;01 - 00;10;13;12
Speaker 2
So there were a couple of key things. And I think the first one is the importance of brand. And I've always known that branding and storytelling is really important, but I think branding and storytelling matter so much and being able to know who you are as an institution. Because if there are dozens of schools around, what is it that your institution is doing that's going to help that student are going to be able to, through a story, be able to help that student understand what that experience might look like?
00;10;13;20 - 00;10;38;26
Speaker 2
I think being able to do that and do that well is going to become more important than ever before. And I think another thing that we're going to see is a bit more looking at what programs make sense in terms of that received marketing dollars. You know, unfortunately right now, sometimes higher ed tries to be all things to all people, and I think that's going to really finally change.
00;10;38;26 - 00;11;04;09
Speaker 2
And we're going to start looking at what programs maybe make sense in our community, what programs have demand or opportunity, what programs. I think, unfortunately, institutions are going to have to make decisions about what programs cost to operate and does that mean different things for different programs? And so I think we're going to see a lot more of a business approach to how institutions decide what things become their focus or not their focus.
00;11;04;27 - 00;11;25;09
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. So you a Little Rock does storytelling pretty intentionally, you know, in terms of you guys have come up with messaging pillars. So tell me about your messaging pillars and how when you go to tell a student or alumni story, for example, that you have to be selective about what story you're telling.
00;11;25;15 - 00;11;51;28
Speaker 2
So we sat down and we did some analysis of prior stories that we had told about our university for about the last year and a half. And in looking at those stories and then talking and doing focus groups with our alumni, with our current students, our current community, we came up with about four different message pillars. And so a couple of those are things like we want to be leaders in the classroom, we want to be leaders in our community.
00;11;51;28 - 00;12;32;06
Speaker 2
And another message pillar that's really important to us is that our sense of place being in a capital city and a metropolitan university, give us opportunity that we that not every other place can have. And so when we're talking in our internal office about what stories it is that we want to tell externally to our partners and tell in our media, we're very intentional in making sure that every single story that we have, whether it's we got X grant or so and so had a cool research paper, published everything and anything in between has to be aligned to one of those pillars so that it's not only that we're telling this one story, but we're
00;12;32;06 - 00;12;49;13
Speaker 2
telling it in a way that it helps us advance our brand message and what it is we are and who it is we are as a university. And so that helps us decide sometimes if we've got two or three stories that we only have capacity for one of those, it helps us make the determination about what's the right story.
00;12;50;03 - 00;13;05;07
Speaker 2
But it also gives us a little bit of opportunity to be creative and how we tell stories because it helps us think outside of just the who, what, when, where, why and how of a story. We can tell it in a way that it's really supporting that brand message and brand.
00;13;05;07 - 00;13;24;02
Speaker 1
Pillar Yeah, And so, you know, storytelling is that really broad, broad word. And I find that when a lot of, you know, colleges say, you know, for instance, you know, we got to do a better job of telling our story, that that sort of just means figuring out who they are and kind of like communicating that in a creative way.
00;13;24;07 - 00;13;34;27
Speaker 1
You know, I mean, other times it might be telling actual narrative stories, but I feel like you guys do a good job of doing both. Tell me, like, how you guys interpret storytelling and how you implement that.
00;13;36;12 - 00;14;00;12
Speaker 2
I think you're spot on. I think it is both because and that's where I think this brand pillar idea has really helped us because it is telling actual stories. And being in a capital city, we have great media within that have statewide reach right here in our backyard. Not everybody has that. So it's really important that we're telling specific stories that can get in those media, then reach the entire state.
00;14;00;21 - 00;14;22;02
Speaker 2
But it's important that those stories still advance the brand and the message that we're wanting to get across. You know, I'm not going to be to have success telling our local paper, Hey, you need to talk about X thing that we want to talk about. But if it's written into a an article and it's part of a narrative, then it becomes something that they use.
00;14;22;02 - 00;14;45;22
Speaker 2
They may not they're not going to use my colors. They're not going to use my logo in a way that I would love them to all the time. But they can talk about the tone that are that are part of that message. And I think it also relates to to student stories. You know, we spend a lot of time talking about who are the students that we want to feature and how important they are, because students need to see themselves, alumni need to see themselves.
00;14;46;00 - 00;15;09;24
Speaker 2
And so how we tell those stories, I think, is really important that sometimes we look at what's going to make sense platform wise. So is this a better story on social? Is this a better lo fi video or a better written piece? What's going to be the best angle to tell that story, to head of that brand message so that everything we're doing is helping us build that brand piece?
00;15;10;04 - 00;15;25;28
Speaker 1
Yeah, you mentioned lo fi lo fi as as an option. How do you how do you guys distinguish when when it would be a good time to do kind of just an iPhone video versus when would it be time to bring on your internal video team or hire a third party vendor?
00;15;26;11 - 00;15;48;02
Speaker 2
We that's one of the things I think we struggle with, but I think it really comes down to authenticity. You know, in today's market and in today's world, a lo fi video is what students it's what prospective students are used to. It's what they see every day. And so if we're trying to show what life is like on our campus, that's a perfect place to do that.
00;15;48;09 - 00;16;12;21
Speaker 2
If we're trying to talk about what students can expect, what other students are feeling, that's a perfect place to show that because it matches where the user is going to see and where the user is, but also with the with the messages. But then there are also times that we want that high end piece. If we're doing something great for we just launched a capital campaign, the public face.
00;16;12;21 - 00;16;23;28
Speaker 2
And so you know something there where we're talking to people across the country about a Little Rock that maybe is a little bit different audience and a loci. I wouldn't quite feel authentic there.
00;16;24;05 - 00;16;55;10
Speaker 1
Mm hmm. Yeah, I, I pay close attention to that because I, I notice there are times when I'm looking at, you know, a school's content or it doesn't have to be, you know, higher ed, just any, any sort of, you know, advertising context where I feel like the video is too polished and it just doesn't and it's in the wrong platform, like a really polished video that served as a Facebook ad where I'm just kind of scrolling, you know, for entertainment purposes is a little bit off.
00;16;55;11 - 00;17;19;18
Speaker 1
Yet when I go to if I go to, you know, a company's website, I expect there to be quality there. That's like the front door. And if it's like a really amateur kind of kind of look and feel, then it's kind of like, ooh, that kind of reflects on the school a little bit. So you do have to kind of be careful about, you know, how you make those those determinations.
00;17;19;27 - 00;17;41;00
Speaker 2
You absolutely do. And I'll be honest, one of the great things we have is we've got interns in our office and that's something we bring them into the conversation because they have a really good if there's one that we're not sure of, have a really good pulse check of what is going to resonate with their peers and they're very honest and sometimes say, Hey, that's not going to work for us.
00;17;41;07 - 00;18;12;07
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah. And so and speaking of that, like what? What channels do you guys because it's storytelling is not just video. It's it's, it's, you know, journal journalistic, you know, articles and and, and blog posts and emails and things like that. And, and side note I was through in the There you a Little Rock site I was on the I landed on the Journal of Social Change and Public service page and I was so impressed with how prolific the and like consistent the posts were.
00;18;12;07 - 00;18;29;27
Speaker 1
I'm like, Oh, they just posted this the other day. And then before that it was like a few days before that, you know, I was like, You don't see that very often where it's like there is a really. And then on top of that, on YouTube, you guys have a very consistent presence as well. And I watched some of your stories that were really impactful.
00;18;31;10 - 00;18;39;25
Speaker 1
How do you how do you manage like how do you manage those channels? What what channels are important to you in Little Rock, that kind of thing?
00;18;40;07 - 00;19;11;17
Speaker 2
Well, I think for us it goes back to kind of starting with who's the audience, and we have to start there because there are so many platforms out there today and so many opportunities that you can absolutely spend all your time just chasing a new platform that pops up. And so we're really focused on the the main audiences, which are prospective students, making sure that we're talking to our alumni and then also talking to our community and research is a huge focus for us.
00;19;11;26 - 00;19;31;06
Speaker 2
So that's where that piece kind of comes in. And so knowing those are the audiences, it's much easier for us to kind of talk through what makes sense for what platform, but also what's the strategy and the structure of each of those platforms. And thank you for the kind words, because I always feel like we've got so much more that we could be doing and that we need to be doing.
00;19;31;06 - 00;19;51;07
Speaker 2
So it's exciting to hear that, that we're doing our doing All right in a couple of spots. But, you know, we have a content meeting every single week where we sit down and are looking at what are the pieces of the stories, what are the right messages in the right place. And so we try to plan out, you know, rough brainstorms about two months and then about a month beforehand.
00;19;51;07 - 00;20;11;00
Speaker 2
We really start building out those pieces of content. And then we also look at our analytics and see where there things that that worked really well. Were there things we need to be doing better at, you know, and trying to make make lessons out of that side of it too, so that we're always continually trying to grow and get better.
00;20;11;11 - 00;20;34;22
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. I was thinking like the marker of like a good content strategy or a good content implementation is the text based stuff. Like if, if, if the articles are coming out regularly, I feel like you've got because that's, that's a lot of heavy lifting, you know, to keep that and like you go to someone's website or some company's website and it says blog at the top.
00;20;34;22 - 00;20;45;13
Speaker 1
So you click that and they have it posted in like two years. And it's like it really does reflect on what's going on at the at the school and how much you value what's going on.
00;20;46;03 - 00;21;06;16
Speaker 2
I think it absolutely does. And I think that's, you know, where it's hard to because there are so many things that can pull you in so many different directions. And so we have worked really hard to kind of foundationally say these are the core couple of things that we have to keep doing and we have to be consistent in.
00;21;06;25 - 00;21;33;02
Speaker 2
And then as we have time and opportunity, let's pepper in other things. But I think it's so important, you know, especially being in a capital city that we're telling news and updates about things that are happening here because we're right here in people's backyard. And so it's really important that we be part of that regular conversation. And so one of the things that we think separates us is being that sense of place being in a capital city.
00;21;33;02 - 00;21;53;13
Speaker 2
You get some opportunities for internships and things that, you know, a student may not always get elsewhere. So it's how can we make sure that we're continuing to talk about those things? Because the minute we stop talking about it, it's so easy for somebody to forget because, you know, we say in advertising, how many times is it now that you have to see something before you recognize and have recall that you've seen it?
00;21;53;19 - 00;21;56;00
Speaker 2
The same thing is true with stories and with content.
00;21;56;04 - 00;22;18;10
Speaker 1
And speaking about what is what is that the Little Rock? What is like the Little Rock environment, the campus, the well, how does how does like the surrounding scenery or whatever affects, you know, what you guys talk about or in fact affect how you reach students or what you say to them? Like give us an idea of what what your environment's like there.
00;22;18;20 - 00;22;42;07
Speaker 2
So if you look at Little Rock, we are a metropolitan city compared to a lot of other institutions. And so while we are not the biggest institution in the state, we are located in the capital city. And so that means that's where all of government happens, that's where a lot of our industry is headquartered. And so in terms of what that means for our students, that means they have internship opportunities.
00;22;42;14 - 00;23;15;19
Speaker 2
We have relationships with those folks. So we try to spend a ton of time talking about that. That's where our major hospitals are. So when you talk about health care, that's where health care is headquartered in the state. So we try really hard to make sure that we're talking about those things and involved in those things. So that we have those relationships with community and industry partners, which then translate to internship opportunities and job placement opportunities for our graduates and we think we're doing a really good job of that because about 85% of our graduates remain in our state.
00;23;16;10 - 00;23;30;27
Speaker 2
And so that's something that we're really proud of, is that we are educating Arkansans who are invested in our communities, stay in our communities and want to continue to serve and do great things. So I think that's a big part of how where we're located impacts us.
00;23;31;21 - 00;23;41;10
Speaker 1
Yeah, cool. Arkansans. I have never I've never heard that before. I guess it makes sense. I will. How would I have said it? Arkansas science or something?
00;23;42;12 - 00;23;46;06
Speaker 2
You know, Arkansans.
00;23;46;06 - 00;24;06;16
Speaker 1
So I think for me, for me going to college, the environment was so influential to me. So I visited, took I went to art school, I visited two colleges with my parents. One was Art Institute of Chicago. And so we took a trip to Chicago. And then I thought for sure I was going to go there. That was like, so cool.
00;24;06;27 - 00;24;30;03
Speaker 1
Chipotle was just coming out, you know, at had Chipotle for the first time in Chicago and then and then my you know, my dad was like, I'll, oh, let's go to Baltimore just for fun, you know. And so we did and we visited Maryland Institute College right out there. And that one sold me just that. I can't even remember why, but it's just beautiful there and the, you know, all stuff.
00;24;30;12 - 00;24;51;28
Speaker 1
But like, yeah, I feel like the environment is so important and for schools to really be showing off that environment because especially for traditional students wanting to come out of high school and have this new experience like land on their feet in independence and kind of be it's like, where do I want to be on my own at for the first time, you know?
00;24;52;16 - 00;25;04;21
Speaker 1
And then you throw on top of that, you have all these partnerships and stuff with with, you know, organizations and stuff like that that that can help propel them into a career afterwards. That's really valuable.
00;25;05;11 - 00;25;28;25
Speaker 2
I think so. And, you know, you make a really good point. One of the areas that we're featuring in our most recent capital campaign is this idea of learning environment. So right now, if you were to look outside my office, you would see a lot of construction. And one of the things that we are doing is kind of the center walkway of campus where reimagining that to create additional outdoor spaces for our students.
00;25;28;25 - 00;25;54;17
Speaker 2
You know, one of the things that I think we learned along with many others is how much students want to have places to connect that aren't always in a building. That was a lesson that we learned during the pandemic, and so we're redoing that space to give them places where they can charge their cell phones, where they can have events in a place that that makes sense for that, where they've got small, different gathering spaces.
00;25;54;17 - 00;26;23;26
Speaker 2
And so that's something that I think we're really excited about from our campus environment. It's beautiful now, but it's definitely a good to great moment where we're really going to lean in to that learning environment piece and know that having places where students can make connections and have they've got 10 to 15 minutes in between class, a great spot where they can recharge their cell phone, grab coffee at the Starbucks and have a conversation with a classmate that's going to help continue to enhance their experience.
00;26;24;10 - 00;26;39;25
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's awesome. And then with the construction, everything, you sort of want to shift gears because I want to talk about some specific stories, but one of the stories that I watched was the civil engineering program and it was. Andrea Vargas.
00;26;40;24 - 00;26;41;08
Speaker 2
Yes.
00;26;42;12 - 00;27;10;24
Speaker 1
And I thought that was super cool and I thought it was what I thought was really cool about it was, you know, it's it's centered around you a Little Rock civil engineering program and stuff like that and the construction and everything. But it's really a story about like her wanting to follow in her dad's footsteps, who was also in the construction trade, but then and then also finding this really tight sense of community like the she gets like teary at one point talking about her rights.
00;27;10;24 - 00;27;28;22
Speaker 1
And I'm like that like that's what you go to college for. Like, you go to college to like, you know, carry on the legacy of your family in some cases, but also to find community and stuff like that. And it's one thing to just say that. It's one thing to just say, here's our civil engineering program and here's all of features and benefits.
00;27;29;02 - 00;27;38;22
Speaker 1
But it's so much I felt like it was so much more of a selling point to hear her story and have those two underlying sort of sentiments come through that you guys did a really good job of.
00;27;39;24 - 00;28;07;22
Speaker 2
Oh, thank you, Thank you. Yeah, that's her story is so incredible. And, you know, she is someone that we're so excited about. You know, she's got an internship and is continuing to to work and to learn. But I think that's it. I think it's that creating a place where people can find their people and find their community, whether that's your major, a club you're involved in, but then also making sure that that academic component is there.
00;28;07;22 - 00;28;27;19
Speaker 2
You know, she's a female and a strong, confident female. And what I think has historically probably been a male dominated industry. And so I think it's really important that she has that support group and she's got those folks that she can lean on and trust because that's going to help continue to make sure that that she does the great things that we're excited to see for her future.
00;28;27;29 - 00;28;32;00
Speaker 1
Yeah. Was that something that was produced before you came on board or was that after.
00;28;32;03 - 00;28;51;27
Speaker 2
It was it was something that it was done before I came on board, but it was something that we're continuing to do that work. You know, that's something we set every single semester. We have different programs that we try to tell student stories as part of those, and that's just an ongoing thing that we dedicate a week to every single semester.
00;28;51;27 - 00;29;16;04
Speaker 1
Yeah, cool. The other one I watched was Josie. Yes. And she the she's in the the radio or multimedia journalism program or something. Yes. That one I really like because I there's a book that I love called Stories With Stories That Stick by Kendra Hall and she kind of talks about this. I can send you a copy if you want.
00;29;16;04 - 00;29;16;27
Speaker 1
I've got a bunch of them.
00;29;18;08 - 00;29;19;10
Speaker 2
Oh, my goodness. Yes.
00;29;21;00 - 00;29;46;14
Speaker 1
And so it's but she talks about like she she really rails on the fact that like so many people, when they say storytelling, they're saying, I'm going to tell my story or here's the story of our company. They're not actually telling a story, they're just listing information. And so that resonated with me a lot. But like then she kind of she kind of has this sort of three part, you know, before during after kind of structure that she talks about.
00;29;46;14 - 00;30;09;10
Speaker 1
Like if you really just want to know if you're telling a story like it should look something like this. There should be some sort of, you know, old the old normal kind of thing. And then there's some some sort of event that kicks some action in to happen. And happening. And then there's some sort of after afterwards. And I thought Josie's story was like perfect example of that where she's like, grows up listening to radio.
00;30;09;10 - 00;30;25;19
Speaker 1
When she went to another school to pursue that. But it wasn't her thing. She kind of had this turning point and she wanted to be a journalist and now she's, you know, she met some of her heroes along the way, and now she's in this new life and great experiences. I thought that was very like I.
00;30;25;21 - 00;30;26;04
Speaker 2
Like very.
00;30;26;04 - 00;30;26;25
Speaker 1
Good example.
00;30;27;13 - 00;30;57;10
Speaker 2
The way I approach it and I think that kind of hits out at a little bit different is I want when we're telling stories, you're absolutely right. Sometimes it does feel like just a list of information. What I think a really good story should get at is it should tell who the person is, because if it's doing its job and we want other people to see themselves, they have to see enough of who that person is kind of behind, behind the perfect so that people can see themselves.
00;30;57;10 - 00;31;22;16
Speaker 2
And so I really like that, that with Josie, it gives you this sense of who she is and what her struggles were. You see that a little bit with Andrea as well. You can kind of sense what her struggle is, what is important to her. And I think that's where a story has has depth, is if it has those personal elements, because then that helps other people to say, well, my personal element of may be a little bit different, but I can relate to that person.
00;31;22;16 - 00;31;28;01
Speaker 2
I can be like that person. I see myself in that story for sure.
00;31;28;01 - 00;31;35;24
Speaker 1
I think, yeah, it's it's so much about that because the information I always talk about the information is really important because you don't want to just.
00;31;35;26 - 00;31;36;13
Speaker 2
It is.
00;31;36;28 - 00;31;54;13
Speaker 1
You don't want to just be telling stories all the time because, because, you know, if I have, I was just say like if I have like a plumbing emergency or something like that. And I go to try to, you know, Google some company, I don't want to hear about how your grandpa started the company. I want to know how much do you cost, How soon can you be here?
00;31;54;21 - 00;31;55;05
Speaker 1
You know.
00;31;55;27 - 00;31;56;07
Speaker 2
Right.
00;31;56;10 - 00;31;57;06
Speaker 1
That kind of thing.
00;31;57;06 - 00;32;04;26
Speaker 2
But it's it's balance. You've got to have a little bit of the information, but you have to have the personal connection in there, too.
00;32;05;12 - 00;32;20;25
Speaker 1
Yeah. And you just felt her her passion, too, in that I'll put it I'll put links for people listening. I'll put links to those those videos in the show notes. But yeah, I thought those were so do you guys do you guys work with do you have an internal video team? How does the content get produced?
00;32;21;02 - 00;32;50;25
Speaker 2
Great question. So it kind of really depends on the platform we've got. We have different paths for different pieces of content. So some of our our more lo fi things, we have some student interns that help on those. We also have an on and a photographer, a videographer on staff that do some of that content. And then there are some pieces that are a little bit more polished that we work with an agency that we really identify the story and the key messaging, and they help us with the shooting and the production side.
00;32;50;25 - 00;32;53;19
Speaker 2
So it kind of runs the gamut in how we approach that.
00;32;54;00 - 00;33;16;18
Speaker 1
Yeah, awesome. Yeah, that's good. I always think it's good. It's so good to have you need you need someone internally or people internally because there's so much about content creation that's just like it's just a day to day capturing of things and cutting up things and repurposing content and stuff that it's so helpful to have, you know, someone.
00;33;16;18 - 00;33;29;18
Speaker 1
But, but then, you know, to have an agency or something that you can do like the, the big, you know, commercials and things like that through right. So how do Yeah. Tell me about how you a Little Rock repurposes the content.
00;33;31;02 - 00;33;52;03
Speaker 2
So we do a couple of different things and I think it's so important, especially if it's something that you're bringing in somebody to produce, something that you have a plan of how you can use that content in several different ways. So one of the things we try to do is think about that when we're doing any kind of a project is making sure that we can use it at least three different ways.
00;33;52;11 - 00;34;13;16
Speaker 2
So sometimes that may be okay. We put that in and we put that on the website, we push that out on social. Okay, that's one. Well then what if we recut it and used a quote or something else on a different platform and okay, how does that then work? If we're going to do a printed piece, maybe that can be something that we link to and can be embedded there.
00;34;13;16 - 00;34;29;08
Speaker 2
So we really try to make sure that if we're going to spend the time and energy on content that we think about a lot of different ways that we can reuse that so that multiple people see it and that people see it more than once. Because sometimes you have to see some things several times before it registers of, Oh, that's a great thing that they're doing.
00;34;29;22 - 00;34;54;03
Speaker 1
Absolutely. It's it's the people don't realize how much content they actually already have, you know, that they just have posted it once and then it's and then they go, oh, well that only got ten views. So we guess we'll try again next time, you know. But it's like likely that not enough people saw it in the right channels at the right time of day, you know, all this kind of stuff.
00;34;54;03 - 00;34;55;24
Speaker 1
There's so many factors that go into it.
00;34;56;09 - 00;35;21;07
Speaker 2
Well, and one of the tactics that I love to think about is when you repurpose a video or something of that sense, you may have this great video piece. Well, is there a week in you know, when you look at a calendar of, oh, national whatever week, Well, that's a great time to report that piece of content when it has some news value and chances are it's probably spaced out enough that that's an easy moment.
00;35;21;13 - 00;35;37;12
Speaker 2
So if you're needing a pro-tip of when to repurpose something, you know, maybe it's national. You've got a great piece on a STEM student and then maybe you post it on national STEM Week or something like that. So even there, that's an easy place to start if you're unsure of how to figure out content repurposing.
00;35;37;16 - 00;36;00;22
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's something I'm really hoping that I kind of advances in because there's so much I feel like we're still in this kind of archaic era era of having to manually test things and manually recall what content is going to fit in, what part of the calendar. I just I just signed up for this scheduling service called Scene Lee and it kind of hits at that.
00;36;00;24 - 00;36;19;12
Speaker 1
Like you queue up a bunch of content for LinkedIn or whatever, and then it will decide like when the best times and days to post that would be and how it manages that across all of your other content. So it's not like competing with your other posts that it's. Yeah. So I'm like, that's a great start. I really wish there were.
00;36;19;13 - 00;36;19;29
Speaker 2
That's really.
00;36;19;29 - 00;36;33;02
Speaker 1
Cool. I really wish it would just like, like there something that come out that just like, kind of knows all the content that you have queued up and it's like, Hey, you should post this today or something, you know, because there's something happening in the news or whatever.
00;36;33;17 - 00;36;50;21
Speaker 2
Right? Yeah, I think that's the piece is you have to be cognizant to what's happening in news, what's happening in the national landscape, your state's landscape, to know a winner as a piece of content going to resonate. But then that also means you have to know sometimes we need to back off of that piece right now.
00;36;51;06 - 00;37;07;07
Speaker 1
Right? I remember when COVID first came out and everyone had to kind of own schedule, all of that, all of their stuff, right? Because it was like nobody saw that coming. And then the ones doing this, like it's really tone deaf things coming out. Yeah.
00;37;07;13 - 00;37;18;22
Speaker 2
I don't think people just did that on purpose. Oh, for sure. People just got busy and didn't think. But being aware of content also is being aware of the climate in which the content exists.
00;37;18;25 - 00;37;37;25
Speaker 1
When it comes to repurposing content. Where have you guys felt like the stress levels kind of decrease where it's like maybe you created something and you just feel like you got a lot of reach out of that or you got a lot of extra mileage out of it. Has there been certain certain areas in your content creation where where that's happened?
00;37;37;25 - 00;38;02;21
Speaker 2
I think where that tends to happen the most is when we come, when we have a strong people story, because I think people love hearing about people are a great example of that. At our last commencement, we always do various stories highlighting some of our students before commencement, and we had a graduate who had started here right at 20 years ago.
00;38;02;29 - 00;38;35;08
Speaker 2
She started at U in Little Rock in the nineties, dropped out, and then her son, when he was going through some college preparations in school, looked at his mom and said, You know, you really need to finish what you start to and really encouraged her. And so I was really excited to hear that this individual, she was graduating, she had gotten connected with our student success because if you think about how much technology has changed in that time frame, and she was graduating with a data analytics degree, and so we're really excited for her.
00;38;35;15 - 00;38;59;18
Speaker 2
But I think when we told her story, it it touched and hit a chord with a lot of other folks. And we had media pick up on that. We've been able to use that on other pieces of content, talking about student success and that how important that piece is, but to also just be a moment where to give her a chance to say, Hey, I didn't believe in myself and you a little, right?
00;38;59;19 - 00;39;06;17
Speaker 2
Did you need to trust yourselves? You're good enough, you're smart enough. You can do this, too, right?
00;39;06;26 - 00;39;31;18
Speaker 1
Absolutely. Oh, that's so good. Yeah. The people's stories. You can really get a lot of a lot of mileage out of because when someone tells their story to whether it's text based, when you're writing it or it's a video or audio or whatever, there's there's often like so many different avenues that you can kind of feature in that, you know, when someone just kind of talks about themselves, you're not asking them.
00;39;31;19 - 00;39;47;10
Speaker 1
It's not just like, Why did you like the school? I liked it because blah, blah, blah. That's pretty static in, you know, Right. Kind of one dimensional. But when someone's telling their stories, there's so many layers that you can repurpose into different topics or different channels.
00;39;47;14 - 00;39;48;09
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00;39;48;24 - 00;40;06;01
Speaker 1
Talking about the the enrollment cliff, kind of going back to your dissertation and things like that, what would be kind of your advice to other, you know, marketing officers when it comes to storytelling strategies? Any tips like what would be what would be the main takeaways here?
00;40;06;07 - 00;40;40;04
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think a couple of things. So I think first, you've got to start with knowing exactly who you are. And so if your institution is still in that all things to all people, you've really got to work with your leadership and work with your campus to figure that out. And then I think once you do that, I think it's much easier to kind of do the number two thing, which is find people who can tell that story, whether that's your alumni, whether that's your students, your faculty, because if you know who you are and you've got people that can talk and speak to that, I think it sets you up to have some really
00;40;40;04 - 00;40;59;09
Speaker 2
powerful conversations in social on your website, an email about what your university experience offers compared to other places. And I think it's when we're showing people what that experience looks like, I think that's where institutions can really stand out from all the words that everybody says.
00;40;59;25 - 00;41;21;15
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's awesome. And I meant to ask you, when it comes to like knowing your knowing what your institution stands for and stuff, did did you guys have like coming up with those messaging pillars? Were those in existence when you came on board, or did you help navigate those kind of did you bring in some third party kind of consultant to help you?
00;41;21;29 - 00;41;42;11
Speaker 1
Because I know if you were to get like if you were get like a bunch of stakeholders in the room, you know, and you're in that all, all things to all people kind of stage and you get everyone in the room, everyone's going to have a different sentiment about what they feel the school is. You should be who should, who should be marketing to and what the differentiators are and stuff.
00;41;42;11 - 00;41;46;21
Speaker 1
How was those conversations for you guys, as far as you know?
00;41;47;01 - 00;42;08;13
Speaker 2
Yes. So at Arkansas Tech, so let me start there because I was there for 14 years. We used to joke that you could put ten people in a room and you would get 11 answers about what was Arkansas Tech. And so before I left there, we did exactly what you're talking about. And we put all these folks in a room, and this is where the data piece really comes in.
00;42;08;13 - 00;42;30;10
Speaker 2
And we did a lot of qualitative interviews with people in our community, our alumni, our students, our faculty, and really started looking at key themes that emerged again and again and again. And so once we kind of felt we knew what those themes were, we did some quality or we did quantitative testing in the market to confirm that that matched with what people thought about the university.
00;42;30;16 - 00;42;48;03
Speaker 2
So that's how we went from kind of that broad to the more narrow here. A lot of that work had already been done. And so I got to come in toward the very end and help really finesse and hone those messages. But a lot of that front end worked at stakeholder interviews and really getting it who the institution was.
00;42;48;03 - 00;42;49;26
Speaker 2
A lot of that had already been put together.
00;42;50;10 - 00;43;00;16
Speaker 1
Cool. Yeah, that's that's got to be nice to come into it because because that's a stressful it can be a stressful place to be whenever when you're just trying to figure that out. It's also exciting, though, I feel like when you're.
00;43;00;26 - 00;43;01;23
Speaker 2
Absolutely.
00;43;02;12 - 00;43;08;20
Speaker 1
Starting to nurture, when you're starting to get some structure to your to your messaging. Cool. Anything else we should talk about?
00;43;08;25 - 00;43;13;02
Speaker 2
I think we've had not a lot of good stuff. I really appreciate you having me on. This has been fun.
00;43;13;06 - 00;43;18;04
Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on. And where can people connect with you?
00;43;18;14 - 00;43;27;15
Speaker 2
Absolutely. So I'm on LinkedIn and Twitter and Carrie H. Phillips and then also my website is and carry on dot com.
00;43;28;10 - 00;43;32;18
Speaker 1
And carry on account what's what happens on your website.
00;43;32;18 - 00;43;52;01
Speaker 2
So about every single week I post some sort of higher ed musing that I've thought about the key topics to focus on are the enrollment cliff marketing, best practices and leadership. And so those are things that I'm trying to think about, what my own experiences are and trying to provide some insight and voice that hopefully is helpful to others in this space.
00;43;52;16 - 00;44;16;00
Speaker 1
Cool. And and for people listening, I know of Carrie because of the content that she posts, you know, and somehow made its way into my LinkedIn and I followed you and and I was like, Oh, finally somebody is posting, you know what I get tired of is like everyone only posting like, Oh, we're hiring for this. Oh, we're hiring for that.
00;44;16;00 - 00;44;37;13
Speaker 1
We're hiring. So I'm like, Well, it's not relevant to me, but I feel like you're you're, you're, you're on online like really providing value in in in the higher ed space And I love following your posts and I read most everything that you that you put out there and it's always just really insightful. So I do encourage everyone to go check out Carrie's stuff.
00;44;38;01 - 00;44;39;18
Speaker 2
Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
00;44;39;20 - 00;45;01;08
Speaker 1
Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Thanks. Thanks for listening. Three things I want to give you before you go. Number one, if you want to take the storytelling you're already doing to the next level, I have a free resource for you. It's a three part framework for creating compelling student and alumni testimonials. You can get that at unveild.tv/studenttestimonials. doesn't even have to be for video.
00;45;01;08 - 00;45;20;06
Speaker 1
It works for written content as well. You know, telling stories on stage or in a presentation in your next TEDTalk, whatever it is. Number two, if having a lot of student and alumni stories at your disposal is something you would love to have, if you could just snap your fingers and have what you want, let's talk. I've got something great for you with our student testimonials
00;45;20;06 - 00;45;52;09
Speaker 1
Subscriptions. Imagine having one new student or alumni story drop in your inbox every month, plus ten other supplemental videos stemming from that story. 11 videos per month. That's 132 pieces of video content per year that you really didn't have to think too much about in order to have arrive in your inbox. And plus all that footage to use as you wish forever for your internal video team, whoever for no extra charge like other production companies would charge you for.
00;45;52;10 - 00;46;11;15
Speaker 1
Head over to our website at unveild.tv thats U-N-V-E-I-L-D dot TV and book a call with us. And number three, leave a review for this podcast. It helps us out of time. Thank you so much for listening. My name is John Azoni go connect with me on LinkedIn and in the meantime, we'll catch you on the next episode of the Higher Ed Storytelling University Podcast.
00;46;11;18 - 00;46;13;29
Speaker 1
Thanks.
