#73 - Storytelling Insights from The Personal Journey of Maria Kuntz
w/ Maria Kuntz
Director of Creative Communications & Services, University of Colorado, Boulder
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SHOW NOTES
My guest today is Maria Kuntz, Director of Creative Communications and Services for University Advancement at University of Colorado, Boulder.
In this episode, Maria shares her personal and professional journey, discussing her experiences as a student, single parent, and higher education professional. She provides insights on storytelling in higher education marketing, the challenges faced by students and caregivers, and the importance of understanding individual student needs.
Key Takeaways:
Personal experiences shape our approach to storytelling and marketing in higher education
The importance of understanding and addressing the diverse needs of students, including caregivers
The power of language and framing in shaping narratives and perceptions
The potential of AI in higher education marketing and student support
Topics Discussed:
Maria's background in theater, French, and international studies
Challenges faced as a student and single parent pursuing graduate education
The importance of time and support for caregivers in higher education
Approaches to storytelling that respect individual experiences and avoid assumptions
The concept of universal design in student support services
The use of AI in higher education marketing and student support
Strategies and Examples Discussed:
Asking students what's important to them when telling their stories
Using AI for qualitative analysis of interview transcripts
Exploring different storytelling constructs beyond the hero's journey
The potential of custom GPTs for brand-aligned content creation
Connect With Maria:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariakuntz/
Connect With John:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnazoni
Website: https://unveild.tv
Newsletter: https://unveild.tv/newsletter
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Transcript (done with AI so only about 90% accurate):
00:00:00:03 - 00:00:11:20
John Azoni
My guest today is Maria Counts. Maria is the director of Creative Communications and Services for University Advancement at University of Colorado, Boulder. Maria, welcome to the show.
00:00:12:09 - 00:00:13:20
Maria Kuntz
Thanks, John. Thanks for having me.
00:00:14:07 - 00:00:33:12
John Azoni
Yeah, it's been a while since we did like a deep dive episode into one person's story. Usually we stay pretty tactical, but you've got an interesting story. I'm excited for our audience to hear about it. And you know how that's kind of shaped who you are today as a higher Ed Markham leader, as a storyteller. So, yeah, I'm excited to jump in.
00:00:34:01 - 00:00:34:23
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, let's do it.
00:00:35:15 - 00:00:41:10
John Azoni
So tell me something that people would be surprised to know about you. Let's start there. Before we start, they said.
00:00:42:03 - 00:00:56:03
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, I've played club rugby. I played Women's Club, Club Rugby for Loyola, Chicago, and it was something I was able to do and study abroad too. So I got to travel parts of southern France with the kind of like a D3 regional team in France.
00:00:56:13 - 00:00:57:04
John Azoni
Wow.
00:00:57:15 - 00:00:59:17
Maria Kuntz
That's cool. Yeah, I.
00:01:00:04 - 00:01:11:10
John Azoni
I've watched some of the rugby on the Olympics and I'm always like, I'm amazed like, where are they playing this? Because I never see rugby tournaments that you can just go to, you know?
00:01:12:00 - 00:01:33:15
Maria Kuntz
Yeah. You know, their pitch is kind of we call them pitches. They're sort of hidden, I would almost say out of plain sight, like you might go to a big sports field, not realize there's a rugby pitch, or am I happen to be at an event in Denver yesterday and there was a we were at the big regional rugby pitch, you know, for Loyola we played in neighborhood.
00:01:33:15 - 00:01:44:04
Maria Kuntz
Some of them were neighborhood parks, some were big complexes. And in and the south of France there were huge like stadiums and clubs and some pretty legit spaces.
00:01:44:20 - 00:01:48:04
John Azoni
Is it as violent as people say it is?
00:01:48:18 - 00:02:10:18
Maria Kuntz
I mean yeah people and people can be vicious. Spiky cleats on hands are real thing. You've got to be careful. And I, I, I suffered or experienced a blowout fracture to my orbital bone, put me out of part of a season because I tackled someone who was probably I successfully tackled someone who was quite a bit bigger than me.
00:02:11:14 - 00:02:12:10
Maria Kuntz
And that's what you get.
00:02:12:22 - 00:02:13:10
John Azoni
Wow.
00:02:13:18 - 00:02:14:16
Maria Kuntz
Geez. Yeah.
00:02:15:02 - 00:02:20:11
John Azoni
Yeah, I would have, like, picture that about you. So I'm a little scared of, you know.
00:02:21:00 - 00:02:40:08
Maria Kuntz
Yeah. Most people don't. You know, the pandemic was great for me because I took my current role during the pandemic. And when I met my team, everyone said we thought you were so much taller, and I would joke with them beforehand. I said, Oh, none of you know how tall I am. And because I said, None of you know how tall I am, I had planted the idea that I was tall.
00:02:40:08 - 00:03:01:11
Maria Kuntz
Apparently I learned this is like a language and storytelling sort of tactic, I guess. And I'm in reality five foot two. And so nobody had any idea until we in person. It was this really, really interesting experience about language and perception and being a five foot two rugby player as well.
00:03:01:22 - 00:03:28:06
John Azoni
Interesting. That reminds me of some I don't know if it's a video or a show that I saw where they're sort of proving that concept like the host and had these like social media influencers on and he kind of like walked them around this set and sort of like planted ideas like very naturally in the conversation, like I forget how he did it, but like just the power of suggestion.
00:03:28:06 - 00:03:41:16
John Azoni
And then they looked at what were all the posts that they made around the set because they would go take selfies and do these things and use props and stuff. And like they used, they created the exact suggestion. Suggestion is.
00:03:41:16 - 00:03:43:00
Maria Kuntz
Very subtle. Yeah.
00:03:43:03 - 00:03:48:21
John Azoni
Just because you say something and it sort of plants it, just that idea forms in their mind.
00:03:49:14 - 00:04:03:10
Maria Kuntz
Right. But this is, is kind of an interesting segue into something I love to nerd out about and I'm sure will continue to circle around is the power of language and how we frame stories. And I mean, can you remember a time when somebody said, How short are you?
00:04:04:01 - 00:04:04:10
John Azoni
Right?
00:04:04:13 - 00:04:26:04
Maria Kuntz
So even to the shortest person you've ever met, Simone Biles, everyone knows now is four foot eight. Everyone says, How tall is she? She's four eight, relatively speaking. I would say she's short, as I would say about myself, but I've never. No one's ever said, How short are you? Because we have these biases about short and tall and power and impact and presence and that is preferable.
00:04:26:18 - 00:04:33:15
John Azoni
Yeah, I had a friend growing up that used to say she well, in college, she used to like to ask people, How young are you?
00:04:34:05 - 00:04:35:15
Maria Kuntz
Yes, that's a great one.
00:04:35:23 - 00:04:48:21
John Azoni
She's like, I don't like I don't like like asking people how old they are. It feels weird. Yeah, but yeah, interesting. So and then you grew up and I recently found out you grew up in Michigan where I'm based.
00:04:49:11 - 00:04:57:00
Maria Kuntz
Yes, The Mitten State. Yes. I grew up in quite rural Michigan, nestled somewhere between Detroit and Port Huron.
00:04:57:13 - 00:05:13:10
John Azoni
Okay, cool. Well, you tell us a little bit about, you know, south of France playing rugby. So that's a good Segway into telling us about your educational background. Tell us kind of like, yeah, where you been when what you studied and how you got you know, how you got here today.
00:05:14:03 - 00:05:48:04
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, it's a circuitous path. I definitely did not ever sit out and say, I will be in marketing. I think I attended undergrad thinking, you know, just sort of very questioning and doubtful of marketing and business and commercialism. And so I studied theater, French and international studies at Loyola University, Chicago, and not knowing it at the time, it was sometime when I was, you know, working in higher ed marketing that I was able to look back and go, Oh, I spent those years really studying culture, language, storytelling.
00:05:49:06 - 00:06:06:07
Maria Kuntz
I was editing last night and sort of circling like, Where's the why? What is the point of this story? Like, why do we care about this character? And that is something that's really ingrained in your thinking and training as an actor and a director in the theater realm. You sit there and say, Why would anyone care about this character?
00:06:06:07 - 00:06:53:13
Maria Kuntz
You have to really know them deep down to perform it and to build a whole production around it. Yeah, So that's where I was. I ended up in Denver. I traveled a lot, I studied abroad, I lived abroad, I've done research abroad and ended up in Denver studying international and intercultural communication, which really delves into issues of identity politics and how the media shapes narratives or how entities and media and power kind of play out in shaping narratives and stories about the world in which we live as well as about people and I studied I was working at the University of Denver and attending graduate school simultaneously, so I was very much in this.
00:06:53:19 - 00:07:05:20
Maria Kuntz
You know, just deep place of studying and putting it in practice, studying, putting it in practice. And it was felt pretty intense in a really fulfilling way always.
00:07:06:14 - 00:07:28:19
John Azoni
That's awesome. So you have had quite a personal journey here. You know, on top of all that that we've talked about, that's kind of impacted, you know, who you are today. I want to talk a little bit about that and like how that's kind of impacted your your leadership style. So so can you walk us through the highlights of, you know.
00:07:28:21 - 00:07:58:13
Maria Kuntz
Highlight there highlights today? Some of them, you know, the lowest lows are what I would say, the lowlights. Sometimes later in life you realize they're highlights because you, as a mentor of mine, shared with me and it's it's a fairly common phrase, right. You know, learning to make lemonade from lemons and learning or growing through challenges. You know, one of the things I think so much about is how do we really know the students around us?
00:07:58:13 - 00:08:32:17
Maria Kuntz
What do we know about students or alumni that will focus on students to keep it simpler? You know, what do we really know about people and how do we gather information about them so that we can both communicate to them, but also to tell their stories? And so I think I didn't know it at the time. I have started to different stories from my one from my undergrad and one from my graduate experience that really impacted sort of how I think day in and day out about higher ed communication and marketing.
00:08:33:22 - 00:08:50:17
Maria Kuntz
So as an undergrad, you know, I got there. I was really excited to go to Loyola. It felt like a big dream come true. I was fortunate. I was received a merit scholarship, a full merit scholarship, and I was one of five kids rural America. You know, my parents did well to support us, but they they didn't have college funds for us.
00:08:50:17 - 00:09:12:06
Maria Kuntz
So I remember this sort of, okay, well, we got you here, you're there, you're on your own now. And I remember I got all the student loans they would give me from what do they call them, the subsidized loans or the federal loans. And then I couldn't finish paying my bill. And so my mom and dad were like, oh, we don't know, like go to financial aid.
00:09:12:09 - 00:09:27:07
Maria Kuntz
And they didn't know what to tell me either. So, you know, I had to do that and just sort of, oh, okay, I guess I'm taking out a private loan and like, I had no idea, but I already moved to Chicago. I was there. Yeah. So I did that. And then within the first few weeks of school, my parents called me.
00:09:27:10 - 00:09:43:00
Maria Kuntz
My dad was an engineer. My mom was a nurse. My dad worked for the big three and he was laid off and they said, you know, we just have to let you know, your dad's laid off. We're really not going to be able to help you support you. So kind of whatever happened you need, you need to figure it out.
00:09:44:04 - 00:10:01:14
Maria Kuntz
And that was a big shock. So it's like, oh, okay, You know, I think I had a work study award and I was making seven or 750 an hour working for the Department of Food and Nutrition, and you can only work like ten, 12 hours a week. So you know, and I didn't talk about that. I didn't reflect on it.
00:10:01:22 - 00:10:25:02
Maria Kuntz
And at the time, it's not like I really talked to anybody about it. I just sort of packed it in a backpack and carried it. And it was stress and it was difficult. It wasn't until much later, maybe in the past few years working in higher ed where I went, Oh, I get it. You I have had that experience of like not really necessarily knowing how I'm going to kind of scrape things together or not.
00:10:25:14 - 00:10:54:22
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, I don't think, you know, it's just you make things work, but it's it wasn't something I spoke about and nobody asked me about it. And I don't you know, we talk a lot about student success and persistence and connecting students to resources. I think because there can be shame with that or, I don't know, fear, vulnerability. It's not that an 18 year old is walking around just saying like, hey, this thing happened.
00:10:54:22 - 00:10:58:14
Maria Kuntz
I don't know what's going on. Where do I turn?
00:10:58:14 - 00:10:59:01
John Azoni
Right?
00:10:59:07 - 00:11:20:17
Maria Kuntz
So, you know, I think that to say that students carry a lot of things and their own kind of personal experience, shame, thoughts about how they need to show up, how they want people to perceive them, what they want people to know about them. Impression management might keep them from sharing things that could get them help and resources they need.
00:11:21:19 - 00:11:48:15
John Azoni
Yeah, and I think that's that's too like I have thought about that in terms of storytelling as well in the past where it's like someone's not going to just raise their hand and tell you, like, here's my story, like marketing department. Like, come on, yeah, come on, let's talk about it. Like, you have to engage in like real conversation with, with people and really draw that out too, to really get at a story that is worth telling.
00:11:48:15 - 00:12:10:08
John Azoni
And, you know, like, like you're saying before, like, how do you make the student that's like a character? Like they're just some sort of pawn in your marketing game. But like, how do you make this person, you know, how do you get the audience to connect with this person so that they can connect to what they're saying rather than just, you know, I liked the school and it was great and Right.
00:12:10:23 - 00:12:36:19
Maria Kuntz
Right. I mean, it's we walk really, really fine lines. I think both strategically and then ethically, because in storytelling I have permission and sort of co collaboration co-creation to share something that is interesting. I think we have to be careful that we don't then just sort of glamorize glorify the challenge of life, right? For the sake of, oh, and look at the transformation.
00:12:36:23 - 00:12:56:11
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, you know, there is it's just a really fine line to walk because we're asking folks to share sometimes things that were challenging that they weren't willing to just raise their hand and say, Oh, hey, by the way, you know, I'm really struggling. Well, rugby kept me at Loyola, so, I mean, I had a full ride. It was end of my first year.
00:12:56:11 - 00:13:26:08
Maria Kuntz
And even that summer, I think I just thought, I don't I don't know. This has been really hard. It was a hard I couldn't even tell you today exactly what was the hard. But I don't think I had a strong sense of connection or direction. And financially it was really hard. And I had doubts about going back. And then to two women who I kind of knew and they knew each other really well from the track team invited me to be their roommate because we had sophomore, right?
00:13:26:08 - 00:13:47:05
Maria Kuntz
You had sophomore year, you had to be on campus. And I was like, okay, well, I'll try that. And then another friend through theater, ironically, was on the rugby team, and she had been a competitive high school athlete. And I said, okay, I'll try that. And I realized later in life, working in higher ed, that that was my moment of finding connection and belonging.
00:13:47:17 - 00:13:58:01
Maria Kuntz
But I needed a place to anchor to. That was community that accepted me that, you know, just was fine with something to do and to belong to. Yeah.
00:13:58:19 - 00:14:06:04
John Azoni
So how did you move past, you know, those initial challenges at Loyola? You know, with, you know, financially and things like that.
00:14:06:19 - 00:14:11:23
Maria Kuntz
I mean, one foot in front of the other. It didn't change much throughout my my years there.
00:14:12:15 - 00:14:13:13
John Azoni
But you had a full ride.
00:14:14:01 - 00:14:37:07
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, but you have to pay for room and board. Yeah. You know, like tuition is covered and we talk about that now. It seems like what's the total cost of attendance. So I was covering room and board and, you know, you're day in and day out expenses like clothes. I need shoes. You know, something breaks books. I remember working really hard to find discount books and discount online sellers so that I could get my books cheaper.
00:14:37:07 - 00:14:58:21
Maria Kuntz
And I was that student who did not have all the books on the first day of class, especially for theater. We had, you know, a couple of dramatic lit classes where we'd have to read 30 some plays in the semester. And so week one of class, you're supposed to have read three plays and I'm like getting them in week two or three because I was ordering them for $0.50 from Thrift Book Scheme or something.
00:14:58:21 - 00:15:01:02
John Azoni
Oh yeah, I used to order all kinds of books from there.
00:15:01:15 - 00:15:15:07
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, Yeah. So, you know, I think I got a little bit higher paying work study job at one point and that helped. But, you know, I just, I lived lean. I live a scrappy. Yeah.
00:15:15:16 - 00:15:25:03
John Azoni
So where did you go from there when, when you left Loyola how did your personal and professional life progress what challenges did you run into that kind of thing?
00:15:25:18 - 00:15:54:12
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, I mean, Loyola was phenomenal for me, and I had great mentors, so I really fortunately landed a Fulbright Research Fellowship, a graduate research fellowship in Greece. So I had a few months between graduation and departure, but I spent a year there doing really incredible work. And then I moved to Denver because I have one of my four brothers and my oldest brother had this rock climbing accident and he was based in the Denver area.
00:15:54:20 - 00:16:19:12
Maria Kuntz
I moved out here to be with him and sort of, you know, and that was 17 years ago. I stayed. I didn't know it would be so great. He's 100% healed and good and fine always have to include that. But it was it was a special moment. So, you know, I got to working and did a couple of years working and worked in the nonprofit sector out here doing fundraising and really knew deep down that I wanted to go back to school.
00:16:19:12 - 00:16:46:06
Maria Kuntz
I wanted to graduate degree. And so I ended up working at University of Denver, and about a year into working there, started my graduate program in International Intercultural Communications. So at that point, you know, I was in my probably late twenties and my son, I was married. I had started my family. So I had a son who was about to turn three when I started graduate school.
00:16:46:15 - 00:16:56:11
Maria Kuntz
I was working full time, you know, living the dream as best you can, you know, like it's it's not easy, but I thought it was what I wanted it again.
00:16:56:15 - 00:17:15:05
John Azoni
Three is a three is like the best age. And also the toughest. I feel like three and that like three and four area. It's like the most precious, but also the most like, you know, they're the most needy. They're like very needy. Like they're they can talk, they can say things. They want to talk to you. They want to play with you.
00:17:15:11 - 00:17:18:03
John Azoni
But also they can't do things themselves. And so and.
00:17:18:03 - 00:17:44:17
Maria Kuntz
You want them to do certain things themselves and they're not there yet. Yes. Yeah. So I think that was really that was an interesting point in life of really starting to work on what I now call life work integration. You know, it's not just balance, it's integration. There is this sort of every day kind of charting the path every week of, you know, how am I going to get to class and get to work and get my son to childcare.
00:17:44:17 - 00:18:04:14
Maria Kuntz
And I was married at the time and went through a divorce during graduate school and during that period of life. So, you know, there was there it started one way. It started with a two parent system. And by the time I graduated from grad school, it was mainly a one parent system. My son was with me most of the time.
00:18:04:23 - 00:18:24:21
Maria Kuntz
Mm hmm. And that, you know, there were those those are the kind of the other challenges, I think when I mentioned I had two sets of challenges, one in undergrad and one in graduate school was getting to this point where I did all of my coursework and I took some time off and needed time to process and go through a divorce.
00:18:25:07 - 00:18:44:15
Maria Kuntz
And I knew I had to come back and do my thesis, which is big, know it was a research project. I read 2 to 300 newspaper articles in Greece and looked at how newspapers were framing the Greek economic crisis and then doing this comparative study of how it was done in Greece versus how it was done in all of these other countries.
00:18:45:08 - 00:19:07:14
Maria Kuntz
And that's intensive. I qualitative research tools were brand new and everyone was very skeptical of them. It was like major shade. If somebody said they were using qualitative content analysis tools in their in their work. So they existed. But it's not, you know, if I was doing the same thing today, I would approach it differently. And my challenge was time.
00:19:08:03 - 00:19:29:11
Maria Kuntz
You know, I said, I just need time. I'm working all day, I'm taking care of my son. I need time to do my research and I read an article recently and I think it was maybe it was inside Higher Ed or The Chronicle. And, you know, the article is about why the caregiving crisis is driving scholars out of higher ed.
00:19:29:11 - 00:20:02:17
Maria Kuntz
And I was like, Oh, I got to read this and I read it. And I was like, Yes, bingo! Because it's not just scholars. Caregiving is sort of this new need that I think it's estimated that 20% of students who are in higher ed in some fashion have caregiving duties, and that extends to staff and faculty. And while the article focused on faculty, one of the people profiled was sharing how what they needed was time that you can get grants for microscopes and tools and books, but your time is sometimes what you need.
00:20:03:10 - 00:20:21:06
Maria Kuntz
And there was a graduate research fellowship at where where I tended and I'd spoken to my advisor and I said, you know, the biggest hurdle I have right now is just the time to do it. And I don't have child care and I can't really afford to pay someone regularly to watch my son so I can focus on this.
00:20:21:22 - 00:20:42:22
Maria Kuntz
And I did the application. So we'll just go for it and see what happens. And I did not I did not get funding for that. And what I heard through unofficial channels was we just never received a request like this and we didn't want to open up the can of worms. Yeah. And so when I read this article, I thought, this is really something.
00:20:42:22 - 00:20:58:21
Maria Kuntz
It's not just me that experienced it. There are faculty, our staff members experience it, and I think, you know, 20% of students have caregiving duties. Time is sometimes what you need and that's where you need support. Yeah.
00:20:59:16 - 00:21:09:04
John Azoni
Yeah. It's it's such a my wife and I always talk about how to single parents do it at all. Like, I mean, with all kinds of situations and a.
00:21:09:04 - 00:21:09:22
Maria Kuntz
Lot of gray hair.
00:21:11:07 - 00:21:35:13
John Azoni
I mean, I've just like, I mean, even just like weird fringe situations. Like we my dog at one point was like I took my kids to the park when they were really little, like my youngest. I think was maybe one or two. And then my my, my oldest was maybe four or something that night and my dog collar broke and she got off the leash and ran and was running after this other guy and his dog.
00:21:36:01 - 00:22:02:10
John Azoni
And I'm like, I can't leave my kids here and I have to go get this dog. And I'm like, I asked this mom to, like, watch the kids. And I ran and got the dog. I came back. I remember just telling them I'm like, How do single parents do do this? There's so many other situations where it's like, I can't I can't be in two places at once, you know, or like one person, you know, if, if like, you know, my wife gets like really sick or something.
00:22:02:10 - 00:22:22:17
John Azoni
She's like, I don't know how like, what do single parents do if they're sick and don't have anyone to, like, give their kids off to so that they can just focus on healing. And then obviously with, you know, there's this idea of like working on future growth as a parent in the fringe hours. I think there's like a whole book about the fringe powers or something like that.
00:22:23:11 - 00:22:23:20
Maria Kuntz
Yeah.
00:22:24:09 - 00:22:35:03
John Azoni
But even that is tough. I mean, especially with kids that young, you know, two, three, four. You bedtime isn't always like they don't necessarily stay in bed after, you know, eight or nine.
00:22:35:05 - 00:22:53:04
Maria Kuntz
O'clock and you're tired. Yeah, tired. You may or may be like, you know, I guess I used my fringe hours to do my graduate research. That's what I did. It was like 9 to 11 every night, bedtime. I fell asleep in bed frequently getting my son to just get down to bed. And then I'd wake up and go, Right, You know, I carried him.
00:22:53:04 - 00:23:12:12
Maria Kuntz
He came to class with me. We joked He was the youngest student in the International C Program. International Intercultural Communication. He was at potlucks. There was one required class that just was always going to be at night and I had to be there and we tried. Zoom wasn't a thing. We tried all these ways to record it and have me phone in.
00:23:12:12 - 00:23:34:21
Maria Kuntz
And the end I said, I just it's not going to work. I'm going to miss so much content and it takes a supportive community. If you, you know, and I see that that is not something everybody has. And I think if we think about caregivers, even students who might be caring for a parent in higher ed, they need a supportive community.
00:23:35:06 - 00:23:51:13
Maria Kuntz
They need to be seen, they need to be heard. They may not raise their hand and say, I'm struggling with this. So it kind of goes back to that earlier question of how do how do we learn what our students actually need and what they're struggling with beyond the things that we sort of have data on already?
00:23:51:16 - 00:24:18:09
John Azoni
Yeah. Yeah. And so that's a I mean, that's an interesting, you know, case study about, you know, child care and gosh, daycare is like so incredibly expensive. And I can't imagine like trying to really get a lot done with kids. What do you feel like? Like how do you feel like that shapes that experience, shapes you know, how you the lens, what you view your role today at University of Colorado?
00:24:18:09 - 00:24:47:02
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, I mean, my roles are I wear a number of hats, right? So as a storyteller, I really think a lot about what do I know about a person, what sort of public information, what has been shared versus what don't I know? And how can I respectfully ask and be curious and find out more and meet somebody where they're at with what they're willing to share?
00:24:47:02 - 00:25:12:23
Maria Kuntz
Yeah. I've also had the experience of, you know, for example, you know, we talked about glorifying certain identifiers, right? So that could be somebody race, Senate race, ethnicity could be their first gen status. It could be in engineering, It could be that they're a woman because, you know, statistically speaking, there are more people who identify as male studying engineering.
00:25:13:18 - 00:25:34:19
Maria Kuntz
So when I think about how I'm going to tell a story, I have to be careful that I'm not layering my biases and assumptions on somebody that that's what they want to talk about. Yeah. So if I frame all the questions and prepare everything in from this place of like, well, I think that's intriguing. Or, Oh, you're a woman, so this must be extra special for you.
00:25:34:19 - 00:25:55:07
Maria Kuntz
But that's actually coming from a place of what my belief system is. So I like to ask folks, you know, what is important to you in telling this story? What are the things that matter to you and I? In one case, I asked somebody and I said, Well, I know you're a first gen student. Is that important to you in the telling of your story?
00:25:55:07 - 00:26:14:07
Maria Kuntz
Is that something you want to talk about? Is that something you want to emphasize? Mm hmm. Gives choice. I think, you know, it's it's a choice and it's a conversation starter. And they might say yes. And I think the time I ask that person, I think they were sort of like, Oh, that is interesting. And it wasn't what we focused on.
00:26:14:07 - 00:26:17:13
Maria Kuntz
I mean, it was true, but it wasn't the main point.
00:26:18:03 - 00:26:46:10
John Azoni
Yeah, You know, college marketers, we have these like key identifiers like first gen student. Oh, perfect. That's a whole segment of our population we can market to with that. Or, you know, an adult student, you know, you're an adult student, you must have this, this and this. You know, barrier or whatever. But yeah, I love that. I think it's I think I really do think it is important to ask what's important to the student and not inject our own like marketing biases.
00:26:46:10 - 00:27:07:01
John Azoni
And, you know, for me, I'm always I'm always after what's interesting, you know, as a when I'm interviewing somebody, there's always, you know, the part of me that's looking at their story through the lens of like, what is what else is this about other than you like to the school and you had a good experience. Like what else can this be about?
00:27:07:06 - 00:27:23:20
John Azoni
And sometimes there is something there and sometimes there's not. And that's okay. Like I always say, like there's nothing wrong with the video. What? There's a standard testimonial where someone's like, This program was great and here's why is great, and I recommend it. Like, that's a great piece of social proof right there. That's like a Google review, you know?
00:27:24:13 - 00:27:45:02
John Azoni
But like the times when you can make it about something, something else, like if you can get the person to be a little bit vulnerable and talk about like struggles and and things like that or just some other path to to, to how they took to the program, it's so much more interesting. And as a storyteller, like that's where that's like where my brain goes.
00:27:45:02 - 00:27:51:16
John Azoni
But I also have to like, check myself and be like, that might not be what they thought they were going to talk about here.
00:27:52:01 - 00:28:15:08
Maria Kuntz
Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it took me a while to be willing to start talking about different parts of my story that are really personal because I didn't know how other people I had a fear of invulnerability or and how that would be received, you know, So even as a student, I was also a working professional. And I really thought, well, how much do I want people to know what's really going on?
00:28:15:08 - 00:28:38:01
Maria Kuntz
Because they might make assumptions about me. Yeah, that could inhibit my goals and aspirations. So, you know, I don't think candidly speaking, eight years ago, nine years ago, I thought, well, who who's going to say, oh, yeah, the woman who just went through a divorce and is a single parent, She's our top choice for this next job. Yeah.
00:28:38:01 - 00:28:38:15
Maria Kuntz
Yeah. Like.
00:28:40:00 - 00:28:40:11
John Azoni
Yeah, I.
00:28:40:11 - 00:29:02:21
Maria Kuntz
Want to believe that people really look at skills and track record and I think people do, but I think the human side is, you know, you want to protect and create your own persona and present what you want people to present. It's why what we put on social media is really important. You know, if it's if it's been up there for a nanosecond, it's permanently up there.
00:29:03:09 - 00:29:28:05
Maria Kuntz
I always tell I tell my teenagers, you don't know who screenshot it. Yeah, even if you deleted it, it was up there. There's a record. Yeah. And so I think as I've come into my own and I just, you know, sometimes when you're not in the thick of something, it's easier to talk about it or it's easier to see it because you've kind of experienced and made it through and you can reflect on it from a distance.
00:29:28:17 - 00:29:57:07
John Azoni
Yeah, yeah. I definitely think like in just considering the whole person, I remember I went through a time of just like really intense mental health struggle and yeah, was like thinking about a career shift because I was just like, I might just need something different here to, like, get off from under this pressure. That was kind of on me as a creative director at the time, and then it was the first time in so long I was applying to jobs and like those applications were like, Do you have a disability?
00:29:57:07 - 00:30:04:22
John Azoni
And my wife and I are talking. I'm like, I don't. I mean, I like it feels like a disability right now, but I don't want to say that like, Yeah.
00:30:05:13 - 00:30:11:03
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, who wants to disclose that? I mean, it's, it's really tricky. Yeah.
00:30:11:20 - 00:30:31:11
John Azoni
Yeah. So tell me about because there are some really interesting things in that in that article that you shared with a from the Chronicle about just like especially like moms not wanting to like identify those struggles and appear to my mom ish or mommy.
00:30:31:11 - 00:30:35:11
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, it was great line like I didn't want to appear too mommy. Yeah, yeah.
00:30:35:17 - 00:30:58:09
John Azoni
But there's probably other things like, you know, there another article that you shared with me about the college safety net and, you know, what do you, what do you feel like colleges and universities need to be more aware of when it comes to, you know, individual needs of students? We talked a little bit about that. But what are what are some of your thoughts on some of those other needs outside of, you know, parenting?
00:30:58:17 - 00:31:03:17
John Azoni
You know that that our students might be facing and that play into the story that they have to tell?
00:31:04:14 - 00:31:25:14
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, there's a great article the other day about the college safety net or I think it's a report. So I wasn't able to read it, but I read sort of the high level and it was saying that, you know, as a student, populations are changing. Low income in first generation students are pushing the need for wraparound services and the growth of wraparound services.
00:31:26:05 - 00:31:49:04
Maria Kuntz
So going back to sort of the way Web, how is that story framed? The story was framed that first gen and low income students need wraparound services. And I would say yes. And how do we know who all needs wraparound services? Because students are experiencing things that they're not willing to share or because they just don't know what they don't know.
00:31:49:04 - 00:32:11:03
Maria Kuntz
They don't know there are resources. So that got me really thinking about this concept of universal design. And I mean, I think the wraparound services are absolutely fantastic and they're needed and they're helping a lot of students. And I'm thinking about like, okay, how do we go the next step? How do we make it so that we meet students wherever they're at?
00:32:11:07 - 00:32:37:19
Maria Kuntz
And we are curious what are the mechanisms to be curious about all of our students and help them navigate what it is they specifically need? So that could be mental health resources that could be access to a food pantry, it might be academic resources, it might be study skills which students come into college with really varying levels of how to study and succeed in a college level course, which is generally really different than high school.
00:32:38:10 - 00:32:57:18
Maria Kuntz
Yeah, So I think, you know, my my thinking is, okay, how do we go to that next level? You know, I was having this you know, I've been mulling it over the past few days. You know, what is is there a way, even in the future, that we use A.I. to give students a way in which they can disclose?
00:32:57:18 - 00:33:22:17
Maria Kuntz
And, you know, we had a questionnaire that's not like, you know, do you need mental health services, but have you felt this way or do you, you know, struggle with this? Or how confident are you in your study skills? Well, in the student who says, I'm not so confident that the program can produce sort of a suite of personalized resources like all of these resources are here.
00:33:23:04 - 00:33:57:17
Maria Kuntz
Here's their office hours. I mean, in the really perfect world would be saying take all of that matched up with their class schedule and say in the next month, you should go on Monday, the 27th, two academic resources and here's how you get an intake to assess wellness resources for whatever your concerns are. But I think what that takes is building institutions that are curious, that have ways of connecting with students, every student to find out what it is they are identifying they need help with.
00:33:58:07 - 00:34:21:01
Maria Kuntz
And then, you know, I go back to the concept of universal design that if we design a system well, it will serve a universal design would say all or most people. So if you think about a PowerPoint presentation, if the font size is too small, certain people can't read it. But if you bump up the font size, everyone can read it.
00:34:21:01 - 00:34:31:18
Maria Kuntz
It doesn't. Nobody loses. Yeah. So how do we get to systems that are really thoughtfully designed with that in mind? Yeah. So that nobody's excluded and everyone can access and navigate.
00:34:32:05 - 00:34:51:19
John Azoni
Yeah, that's really interesting. So some this all for me. I mean, you've had really interesting, you know, international experience, educational experience, personal highs and lows and and you do a lot of storytelling at at University of Colorado like how does it all tied together for you? Like, what would you want to leave our audience with?
00:34:52:10 - 00:35:30:04
Maria Kuntz
Be thoughtful, be curious. Be mindful in your storytelling and your content in your strategy. We as storytellers and marketers, we wield a lot of power both in the individual interaction and the institutional realm. Like we're institutions telling individual stories, so we are outsized in terms of our power and we, you know, take the stories that are given to you, that are shared with you and take that with so much care because we have the power to amplify and leave a lasting impact.
00:35:30:16 - 00:35:38:10
Maria Kuntz
And it's a big responsibility. So, you know, go forth, tell wonderful stories, do great work and connect with people, love it.
00:35:38:16 - 00:35:40:20
John Azoni
Where can people connect with you at?
00:35:41:19 - 00:35:50:04
Maria Kuntz
You can find me on LinkedIn. That's the best place. And, you know, reach out for connection, chat, zoom, talk online. I'm open to all of it.
00:35:51:01 - 00:36:06:18
John Azoni
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story with us today. Being a little bit vulnerable, I think it'll be interesting for our listeners just to see kind of someone at your level of their career just kind of like behind the curtain of, you know, what it took to get there and how that shapes who we are today.
00:36:06:18 - 00:36:07:19
John Azoni
So thanks for being here.
00:36:08:07 - 00:36:11:23
Maria Kuntz
John. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I've really enjoyed the conversation.
